[Captain Stillios]

Hey Heretics!


As the title says, I challenge you!

The Challenge:
Most codecies have at least one unit that is generally frowned apon for one reason or another.

My Challenge to you is to USE said unit in your army and se if you can find a way to make them good and not completly worthless in the eyes of everyone!

Tell us what you think each codex's Bad Unit is and how you got on when you used your's!

So far:

 

[The Boz]

I've been reading the IG codex over and over again, but I still can't find a real good use for Ogryns. They're expensive-ish, don't mix with the Priest's assault re-roll, and they aren't really good melee troops. They're just better than everything else IG has, but not as good as most other races' melee troops.
Also, Deathstrike.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Well, we'll start with the codexes I've never really played as, but have played against plenty of times:

SPACE MARINES: Thunderfire Cannon (far too easily destroyed)
CHAOS MARINES: Chaos Bike Marines (too expensive)
BLOOD ANGELS: Death Company (too expensive)
ELDAR: Swooping Hawks (never seen them make their points back)
DARK ELDAR: Grotesques (don't really work anymore)
TYRANIDS: Lictors (don't really work anymore)
NECRON: Pariahs (leadership checks aren't nearly as important anymore)
IMPERIAL GUARD: Snipers and Mortars (Ratlings and Basilisks are a lot better)
WITCH HUNTERS/DAEMONHUNTERS: Death Cult Assassins (too many kill points)

I know the Imperial Guard one are weapons rather than units, but you get what I mean. As for the armies I play...

TAU: Ethereals. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

SPACE WOLVES: No question, it's the packs of Fenrisian Wolves. They're just too easy to panic away, especially if they're tank shocked. Even if you take the character that gives them his leadership, and allows you to take them as troops, they still can't claim objectives. I tried them once, and never again.

CHAOS DAEMONS: Again, no quesiton, it's the Beasts of Nurgle. They're literally weaker than the same points spent on Plague Bearers, and PB can claim objectives to boot.

ORKS: Tricky. At first I want to say Flash Gitz, as they're far too expensive (and the popular punching bag of the army), but I have to say that it's actually Boss Zagstruk. I've never seen him do anything besides get his whole unit killed. First he deepstrikes his boyz in, which is a bad idea, since they can easily be shot to pieces if dropped right out in the open. Then he only has a powerfist the turn he assaults, so if you're assaulted, the boyz have no fist. Once I saw them counter-assaulted by a single sentinel, and every last stormboy in the unit was cut down, because they couldn't get through the front 12 armor.

Use the units? I'll have to see. I'll think on it and report back.

 

[aboytervigon]

chaos space marines possesed and chaos dreads for chaos

 

[Cocakoala]

Swooping hawks: I hear that these guys can be gold dust in planetstrike missions. Assulting on the turn they drop with haywire grenades, a Phase-field generator or the melta-bombs from a supply drop can do some serious hurt to strongholds. And they can bounce next turn and do it again somewhere else. Webway assult also helps keep them from scattering out of assult range.

If not in planetstrike then using them very conservatively and hitting tanks with the intercept power seems to be the only way to get thier points back. Take out a squad of russes with them and that will see you get your points worth.

 

[hippypancake]

SW:

my 5 fenrisian wolves took on 10 termis...and won

 

[Whizzwang]

SPACE MARINES: Thunderfire Cannon (far too easily destroyed)

Have to disagree with this, I field 3 in every SM army they're that damn good.

 

[Unforgiven302]

Chaos dread's. Everyone says they stink. I have run 1-2 in my last few games to awesome results. Usually my opponent is either distracted by two DCCW wielding dread's running for his tender bits and focuses too much attention on them allowing me to run my 'zerker loaded raider(s) down his throat. OR, they ignore them until I tear his units a new one and then they curse themselves for not acting accordingly. Chaos dread's have a bad rap, but I love em.

The other unit is possessed, but I have yet to ever see them last long enough to do any good. They really are way too limited for their cost to be of any repeated use. It's too bad to, because the models can look fantastic when done properly.

My son runs Orks and has yet to get any good use from running a deff dread. It gets popped in turn 1 or 2 without doing a lick of damage. A nice clunking and clattering unit of killa kans has been so much better for him. So much so, he is saving up for a second unit of them.

 

[The Sullen One]

ORKS: Tricky. At first I want to say Flash Gitz, as they're far too expensive (and the popular punching bag of the army), but I have to say that it's actually Boss Zagstruk. I've never seen him do anything besides get his whole unit killed. First he deepstrikes his boyz in, which is a bad idea, since they can easily be shot to pieces if dropped right out in the open. Then he only has a powerfist the turn he assaults, so if you're assaulted, the boyz have no fist. Once I saw them counter-assaulted by a single sentinel, and every last stormboy in the unit was cut down, because they couldn't get through the front 12 armor.

Use the units? I'll have to see. I'll think on it and report back.

He deep strikes, assaults a walker and destroys it.

In any event the worst unit in our codex in my opinion are Deffkoptas, they die too easily. I used them in my early games, but apart from one freak game against an IG player, they didn't do to much. Personally I think it's because they have rokkit launchas rather than big shootas. If they had the latter they could attack from farther away and last longer.

 

[gen.ahab]

SW:

my 5 fenrisian wolves took on 10 termis...and won

that's only because you got lucky. By all accounts they should have died. But, on the point of wolves; as meat shields for advancing twc armies.

 

[deathbringer]

Orks for me its deffkopta's
Mint models but god i slash them apart like butter, there weapons just dont cut it for there points.

Chaos space marines. Spawn, plain and simple

Tau :ethereal or stealths, hate the fuckers, they are just shit compared to crisis suits

Space marines: I used to say thunderfire but kobrakai convinced me differently, i think they can be very useful. So ill go normal terminators, why? Assaults are so much better.

Imperial guard: Normal troops. No one uses them that i've seen, everyone uses vets with special weapons

 

[Blue Liger]

Dark Eldar it's actually a squad of 5 Scourges with 4 Dark Lances - over costed, under armoured, fragile and can't move and shoot and they have jump packs!

The person who said grotesques is grossly mistaken they are very good and holding down fire as you need all heavy guns shooting at them to kill them and a good DE tactician will use them to draw CC units towards them then counter with wyches or the archon and incubi.

 

[jaws900]

Edlar - Swooping Hawks.....and i own 10 of the plus an Exarch, a Converted Autarch with wings and the Lord. Thjey don't see to much play but only becuase of how easy they are to break. When i'm agianst Guard thats when they gome out of the box.

Marines - Possible the Servitors but i don't really use them. Otherwise i would sya a Whirlwind but i often sue it as a spare Rhino. Once agian they are perfect agianst Guard(and maybe orks) but prity useless agianst everythign else.

Tyranids - Pyrovore. awsume modal but crap rules. Not realy useful agianst anything....well maybe combat Guard but who the hell runs and army of combat guard!!!!

Chaos Marines - Chaos Spawn. You NEVER take them. You create them. thats why you buy that power as you cna create some little servents or turn Calgar into one:victory:

 

[5tonsledge]

chaos space marines possesed and chaos dreads for chaos

ditto thes units arent my first choice to field mainly because there is so much btter units to fill elite spots with. like chosen. but yea ill try i got possesed and i have dreads so why not.

 

[mynameisgrax]

5 Fenrisian wolves get 15 attacks on the charge. Against terminators that's an average of 7 hits = 3-4 wounds = 0-1 kill. Just because you have one lucky assault doesn't make them a good unit. Besides, 5 grey hunters or bloodclaws would've done the same job, and they have guns, far more options, and count as troops. All the wolves have going for them is they're cheap, but not cheap enough to warrant their terrible leadership score.

Whirlwinds are pretty good, and a much better option than the TF cannon, in my opinion. I've never seen anyone run 3 TF cannons, so that might work better, given that at least 1-2 are likely to survive long enough to fire, except in larger point games.

Scourges are indeed too expensive, and definitely a contender for worst DE unit.

I like Ogryns. They fill a niche that no other unit in the army really fills. I've seen plenty of games against IG that came down to the assault, and having Ogryn would've made the difference between victory and defeat.

Chaos Dreads are alright for their cost, and I've seen possessed used fairly effectively. I didn't think of Chaos Spawn though. They probably are worse than the bikers.

 

[Capt.Al'rahhem]

Imperial guard: Normal troops. No one uses them that i've seen, everyone uses vets with special weapons

That's not entirely true, after the intial over use of Chim-Melta-Vet spam, allot of players are going to a hybrid list with at least one platoon with hvy weaps to be combined & sit on an objective or to bubblewrap the artillery.

I personal use 2 full mech platoons, one with Al'rahem, Chimera spam FTW. Not saying it's super compeative but it's what I like and allot of fun, so that's all that matters to me.

From the IG codex I'd say Penal Legion Squads are the worst troop choice as the majority of their random abilities enhance CC which everyone will tell you guard shouldn't do.

 

[Dragearen]

Tyranids: Pyrovore, Venomthrope, Biovore, Rippers, Mawloc(still good, but just not as effective as a Trygon), Tyrannofex, Parasite of Mortrex, Old One Eye
Dark Eldar: Hellions, Scourges, Reaver Jetbikes, Warp Beasts, Mandrakes, Lelith Hesperax
Tau: Piranhas

Of all these units, I have used(multiple times) the Biovores, Rippers and Reavers.

Biovores are iffy on whether the point are better spent elsewhere or not, and I think it really depends on your metagame. I tested them out in Vassal, and found that against any lists that involve a bunch of mech, they suck. If you're in an infantry-heavy metagame, these guys are definitely worth their points, especially against horde armies such as Orks or other Nids.

Rippers worked okay. They take up a few too many points IMO, but they're hell to kill off if you advance in cover, and they'll rip up infantry in CC. Unfortunately, they don't earn back their points and they can't take objectives. And if your opponent takes blasts, they go away pretty fast.

Reavers are similar, they really depend on the metagame, and as it is, the points are best spent elsewhere. They do, however, supply a good bodyguard for your Archon if you want that extra 6" movement. Or, combined with Haemonculi, they can be a deadly combat unit, but they're still overpriced. If they were lowered in price, I would say, by all means, use them.

 

[MidnightSun]

From the IG codex I'd say Penal Legion Squads are the worst troop choice as the majority of their random abilities enhance CC which everyone will tell you guard shouldn't do.

Really? I think they're great. They have scout and stubborn, plus a random ability. Rending, outflanking (To hit that lovely rear armor or punch those lovely squishy fish, the Tau) Guardsmen? Count me in! You can't ignore the fact that these guys can destroy Baneblades!

Midnight

 

[Stephen_Newman]

For Eldar I agree with swooping hawks as the worst unit. However I converted my unit (and Barharroth) to have wings from the sanguinary guard. They not only look awesome but with 9 men, Barharroths hawks talon and a sunrifle they can pour out some fire. You know what they say throw enough mud at a wall and some of it will stick. Plus the presence of a phoenix lord stops people from assaulting them without sending massive amounts of people at them (so that would be 10 termies with TH/SS). Even in death they do me a favour by allowing the termies to be bunched up for fire prism templates of death.

I do not think ogryns are a waste of points. Use them as a fire magnet or as a speedbump unit (2 lascannons to the face or 2 thunder hammer strikes only makes them mad!!)

 

[hippypancake]

Tyranids: Pyrovore, Venomthrope, Biovore, Rippers, Mawloc(still good, but just not as effective as a Trygon), Tyrannofex, Parasite of Mortrex, Old One Eye

Pyrovore: I agree

Venomthrope: I've used two in my armies since they came out. One follows the MC the other the Gaunts give them all cover saves and but synapse creatures behind the gaunts for their cover saves...overall every model in my army has a cover save

Biovore: I agree

Rippers: great for tying up infantry in cc

Mawloc: I agree compared to the Trygon 9 out of 10 times I'll choose the Trygon

Tyrannofex: I think just because it doesn't have a model sucks

The last two I haven't used