[Underground Heretic]

Evening Heresy, I was wondering what you thought about something that happened earlier tonight.

My housemates and I were playing a three-way game and my girlfriend called. After I got done talking to her I came back into the room with the game. Each of my mates told me what had happened while they tried to keep going with the game while I was on the phone. I roll the saves I needed to and started to play out my turn. I roll for reserves, bring them in, then move on to my farseer. I have her cast fortune, I announce what I'm rolling for, roll and announce that it succeeded.

I look at one of my mates who had a GK Grand Master, and ask "Counter?," as in "Do you want to try to counter my casting fortune?" He was in a conversation and didn't take notice. After waiting a bit, I look to my other mate and check with him that I had announced loudly and clearly enough to be heard and that my other mate had a chance to react if he wanted to. I then proceeded with my turn. My first mate wrapped up his conversation and the friend he was talking to leaned over to whisper something to him. Guessing he was telling my mate I hadn't cast fortune on my seer council, as I had neglected to in a previous game against them, and told him I had in fact cast it and offered him a chance to counter, which he did not take. He has now accused me of "playing dirty."

I ask you all, essentially, how much should I hold my opponent's hand? I announced what I was doing, offered a chance to counter and he did not pay attention. He knew I had come back into the room to resume the game, he had talked to me about what had happened when I was on the telephone. I try to be a courteous player and ask you if you believe I have not lived up to an adequate standard of courtesy.

 

[maddermax]

In this situation, you should offer him a chance to counter it again, and make sure he's listening. If he had announced to the world that he's casting something while you were out of the room, and then when you came back, declared that you couldn't counter it, because you weren't there, that would suck, wouldn't it?

Basically, you knew he could counter something with his hood, so make sure he knows he has the opportunity to use it, in the interests of sportsmanship and fair play. Otherwise, you will get a bad rep. People play differently at different places of course, but you shouldn't get an advantage simply because someone didn't hear you.

 

[gen.ahab]

I am a big fan of the cliff learning curve system, they need to know what they are doing after a while so.

 

[Dawnstar]

Generally, when I play in tournaments I always have a fun game, because my opponent and me come to an unwritten agreement that if we're playing wrong to point it out, because if you don't, how do you know if your playing right?

I think I came into the same situation when I was playing a Space Wolf player once. I declared I was using Lash, and he forgot that he had a Psychic Hood he could have used, so I reminded him about it. Yes, it negated Lash but if you help your opponent, he's more likely to help you in return.

Personally, if he's not focused on the game, as he should be, than its his own fault if he misses something. Simply state that if he had been paying attention, he wouldnt have missed it.

In this situation, I don't think you've done anything wrong to be honest. Tell your mate to focus more on the game

 

[hippypancake]

Whenever I play in tournys the rule is that if they have a hood you shouldn't even have to ask them they should know they can try to counter and use it...basically I agree with the statement above

EDIT: dammit dawn you beat me

 

[gally912]

Depends on the level of your opponent. If he's just starting out, or maybe starting a new army, and you clearly understand the rules/strategy behind the army...
then I say help him out. He'll appreciate it and he will be a more fun and challenging opponent down the line.

But if its a tourney or your mate who's been playing for years... all I can say is "Know your army"
Which I suppose is akin to saying "Lrn 2 Play", but the point is, if you can't be bothered to learn/know whats in the army list you put together, I'm sure as hell not going to.

For a long time, I put together note cards for various actions to make sure I covered my bases. ASSULT: 1) Fire Pistols, Champion has plasma. 2) Unit has FC, +1 S... etc etc

 

[Azkaellon]

To be honest and this will probaly make me sound like a jerk but....

Let your oppoent play there own game, helping them basicly makes it you against your self! But to be clear, if they forgot to roll reserves remind them, and being a good sport and so on is a must! But don't suggest how they should beat you other wise the opponent will never learn to use there army on there own and will start asking you how to do stuff all the time (God i wish i had known this before i started helping people). Trick is be Nice about not helping people but do point out the apparent.

 

[humakt]

It does depend on the situation. In this case its his own fault for not paying attention, but I always like my opponents to see my dice roles.

In tournament games I will not help my opponent tactically or reminding them to do anything. I wont be obnoxious and if they remember something partially through thier move (such as a phyic roll or a reserve roll) I will normally let it go and let them have their dice roll. But if he forgets to move stuff and he is already shooting .... or forgets to shoot and is half way though the assault phase, then its tough. I expect no different and dont expect it the other way.

Friendly games Im much more relaxed about and will let most things slide as long as the game is enjoyable.

 

[chromedog]

I frequently have to call my opponent's name and snap my fingers to get him back to the game*

I *try* to explain any and all special rules for any army I am using if they are unfamiliar with it - to be met with "whatever".

You shouldn't have to spoonfeed your opponent or hold their hand. If they can't focus on the task at hand, tough. Life's lessons need learning.



* More than one opponent. Most of the players in my club are kids 15-18 who have issues focusing on one thing for any length of time. They wander off, have conversations and disrupt everyone else's games, too. We had to institute a bribery system to get them to act like little humans.

Carrot and stick approach. Be good, get the carrot. Be a numpty, get hit with the stick.

 

[Rob1981]

Depends, if my opponent is a new ish player I'll point out everything including odd tactical choices (like running a unit of guardsmen into charge range of 30 boyz), experienced players have no excuse though! but I will point out things my opponent may not know about my army's special rules etc.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

I think you have to either point out all omissions, good or bad, or none of them. Otherwise you risk deciding - or appearing to decide - not on your opponent's skill level but on benefit to yourself.

For instance, if your opponent forgets his Reserves roll for his Daemons when he has no Icons on table yet, it is in your interest for them to roll, whereas if you are going to kill his last icon before his next turn then it is not.

 

[bitsandkits]

You are not playing dirty, you were playing the game, i wouldnt even have said "counter?"
its not your responsibility to promt him, if hes too engrossed in a conversation then he gets whats coming to him. Hell, maybe you could pay for all his models, paint them for him and you could carry them around for him to games, were you do all the donkey work and win him the game then he carries off the trophy!
Next time just kick him in the shins and say "head out of arse and focus on the game"

 

[Ishamael]

Instance 1: You left the room to speak privately, yet the game continued, and you didn't question the rolls that you were told when you came back in. You rolled with it.

Instance 2: You roll for psychic powers, and call for counters. Opponent with the counter is in a conversation, and doesn't respond after calling for the counter. You confirm that opponent 2 has seen the roll, and doesn't have a psychic counter. None appearing, you continued on with your turn, just as they had when you were out of the room.

In both instances, there were witnesses present to confirm that X had been rolled for. Being called out for "playing dirty" when the opponent wasn't paying attention is a bit silly. Since you were courteous enough to just accept rolls that occurred while you were out of the room, it seems strange that the opponent didn't just go with it. He had the opportunity, yet his attention was elsewhere when his counter was called for...

This is why the game should take our full attention when playing, and when players leave the table, the guys staying at the table put the game on Pause.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Is that really the way you want to win? I don't know about you, but if the only way I could win was by playing dirty, then I wouldn't really consider it winning at all. From the sounds of it, I don't think your friends really considered it winning either.

The only exception I can see is if distractions are becoming a major problem, and you and your friends want to invoke a house rule that if someone isn't paying attention, then the game essentially goes on without them.

Otherwise, I'd let him use his roll. It's good sportsmanship.

 

[Marneus Calgar]

I think me and my friend have similar conversations.

In our most recent game (SM's vs DA), he was telling me stuff I was forgetting. He is literally a rules sponge, he knows little rules that I wouldn't normally think about (even though I should). I think that you don't need to hold their hand througout it, and I don't think that you need to tell them if they've forgotton something (unless its against the rules).

 

[CLT40k]

Yeah, it was sort of douche-baggy.... Your other mate, the one not on the phone, should have rolled his hood for him. It's not like "do you want to try to block my psych is a Yes/No tactical decision...." The answer is always yes. So just like they did for you when your GF called, you should have done the same for him...

Short answer is all of you need to turn off your damn cell phones and play...

 

[WarpZombie]

Its fine man you did nothin wrong, id say if you openly told him and he simply ignored it then he was stopping the progress of the game and you did everything you could to help him short of interrupting his conversation

 

[Kurrent]

Generally I do absolutely nothing for the opposing player. Friendly game or not we play "Rulehammer." Seemign as in our "friendly" games we are all about equally matched and skilled, we have to wait for the other player to make a mistake to win. Otherwise it jsut takes 6 turns and comes down to kill points.

Same goes for Tourney play. I make sure to have a copy of their army list availible to look at(generally you can request this from the judge), a copy of the codex they are using(my own copy generally) and the BRB. Then after looking over everything the match begins, and if they forget soemthing I "roll with it" meanign if they overlooked it, I do not call it out, I don't hold their hand, and if I can I will try to convince them to make stupid moves via verbal baiting, etc. For instance If they misspeak themselves by not knowing what model of mine is on the table and call my MoK prince the MoT prince when I have both on the field and go to shoot I will confim it(the targeting of the wrong model that is) with them, then when they roll to shoot the wrong one I will simply call a judge, say they declared the roll on x model but didn't have range. Rulehammer is how I won enough store credit for 5 rhinos and a LR. It is not playing dirty it is playing by the rules. And playing by the rules is the best way to play!

 

[Creon]

I'd of had the other person involved roll a counter, and gone on with the game, as happened when you were out of play. Seems an equitable way to do it.

 

[Putch.]

If I'm playing a friend or a relaxed game then sure, I will let them correct minor mistakes, or remind them when they forget their special rules and what have you. The only situation I wouldnt, and this actually happened to me, I was playing a gentlemen who was using a competetive DoC army, this is warhammer fantasy mind you, and he perpetually forgot his phases, or abilities etc. I told him the first two times, but after that I said screw it. Your playing a competetive army and cant even remember your spells or abilities? Thanks for handing me the game!