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How much info do I need to give my opponent?

If for example I have 3 Rhino's with varying squads in do I need to tell my opponent?
Can I mark them down at the beginning as hidden until they disembark?

I suppose this question covers wargear as well. Do I have to tell the enemy my model has a bionic leg under his trousers...
 

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With your rhinos... ideally, you've marked the Rhinos themselves with a squad number or insignia. Otherwise, it just needs to be made a note of for yourself and if your opponent asks, you do have to tell them the squad type, but nothing more.

On wargear... models need to be WYSIWYG, and if they aren't, you need to tell your opponent before the game starts. Surprises are going to happen, of course, just because some items are going to be very subtle on the model, such as frag/krak/meltabombs, purity seals, etc. Even bionics can be fairly subtle since a lot of models have a bionic eye or something. It's a bit tougher to surprise someone with an iron halo though-- generally, things like that are rather prominent on the model simply because of what they are in terms of fluff...they're as much badges of honor as they are valuable hardware.

Now, you could've actually skipped that last paragraph, and just read this. My rule of thumb is that if the model isn't obviously equipped with something on the model itself, you need to let your opponent know what it's got before the start of the first turn. That being said, a good hobbyist will try to model his models to be WYSIWYG to the exact, so the "introduction" phase of the game can be skipped.
 

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Son of Horus has about pinned this down, but I will add that my little band of gamers usally vary this quite a bit.
Sometimes we check each others lists (no suprises there) other times we choose to be in the 'dark' but the figures are normally WYSIWYG bar grenades and such .We always go for the Don't know whats in a transport though.
It adds another dimension to the game to some times.
 

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Viscount Vash said:
We always go for the Don't know whats in a transport though.
Amen to that. When my opponent asks what's in a rhino/transport I don't tell them until the models disembark.
 

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The rules explicitly state that you do not have to divulge *any* information about the contents of a transport.

However, vhances are the opponent will know at least what thye pf squad is inside justby watching when you deploy it. (Was that land raider deployed withelitesor heavy support? Was the rhino put down with HQ or troops?)

You don;t have to tell him, he just has to pay attention and figure it out himself.

As far as models go, if you paid the points for a piece of wargear/weapon.option, it MUST be represented in some manner on the model, and if not then you *need8 to inform the other guy.

However, it;s not nessecarily a two-way street. If you want purity seals on a character, he must have them on the model but just because the model has seals (since they come on most SM models as part of the molding) doesn;t nessecarily mean that you have to buy them for the character.

Taking a standard marine with full power armor and a helmet and claiming he has bionics is not WYSIWYG and needs to be mentioned. However, if you have a model with a bionic eye or leg, but you don;t weant to pay the points for it, that's fine. You don;t have to buy him bionics just because it;s on the model. However, that is also not WYSIWYG, and it needs to be made clear.

What it comes down to is if the model differs from the coresponding entry on your rmy list, you need to explain what is or isn't there.
 

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I may not be the most common type player, but I tend to either use wysiwyg minis or explain what isn't wysiwyg as well as gladly hand over my armylist. I don't care about secrets or suprises in my list as much as some. That's just me.
 

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>> I always thought that you had to tell your opponent whats in a transport if uts open-topped. Could be wrong, but thats how my mates and I play. Rhinos and shit are a no-no though, unless your opponent has some kind of magic see-through-armour type of device. :D
 

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I've always been curious about wysiwyg and how it applies to conversions. Being an Ork player, I have to convert a LOT of things. I make Big Shootas by hacking up two regular shootas and gluing them together. I consider it wysiwyg because it's a shoota, only much bigger, and thus a Big Shoota. They do make a Big Shoota toting model, so does my Ork count as a proxy or a conversion? Is it wysiwyg or not? I do the same things with burnas by making them out of marine flamers.

What are the lines between conversions, proxys, and wysiwyg? I have a terminator captain and want to buy him bionics for a tournament that is wysiwyg. How does one go about making this happen without having to carve their model up? Are there rules what for does and does not have to actually be modeled? What about Mega-armored nobz? Does gluing all the extra armor plates that come on the sprue onto a model witha shoota and power klaw make him Mega-armored? What about my battel wagon? it's made out of a German half-track model, so is it wysiwyg or do I have to purchase the insanely expensive FW battlewagon model to join a tournament?
 

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The Son of Horus said:
With your rhinos... ideally, you've marked the Rhinos themselves with a squad number or insignia. Otherwise, it just needs to be made a note of for yourself and if your opponent asks, you do have to tell them the squad type, but nothing more.

On wargear... models need to be WYSIWYG, and if they aren't, you need to tell your opponent before the game starts. Surprises are going to happen, of course, just because some items are going to be very subtle on the model, such as frag/krak/meltabombs, purity seals, etc. Even bionics can be fairly subtle since a lot of models have a bionic eye or something. It's a bit tougher to surprise someone with an iron halo though-- generally, things like that are rather prominent on the model simply because of what they are in terms of fluff...they're as much badges of honor as they are valuable hardware.

Now, you could've actually skipped that last paragraph, and just read this. My rule of thumb is that if the model isn't obviously equipped with something on the model itself, you need to let your opponent know what it's got before the start of the first turn. That being said, a good hobbyist will try to model his models to be WYSIWYG to the exact, so the "introduction" phase of the game can be skipped.
what does WYSIWYG mean, i feel like a n00b
 

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what about weapons, I don't have any thunder hammers, or lightening claws, so I made them myself, the hammer is large and gold, and obviously ornate, and the lightning claws are made from a power fist, 4 combat knives, and a close combat shield. (the shields even have little lightening bolts on them)

also, with space marines, you cant buy a combat knife, or chainsword, its simply a CCW, so does anything that you put in their hand count as a CCW assuming its weapon like, and looks like you'd hit someone with it. lastly, power weapon, I always assumed that the axes that came with the marines were the power weapons, but I hate those, So I scratch built super huge swords for power weapons.

do these count as wysiwyg? and thus be allowed in tournaments?
 

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@warlord

What You See is What You Get. It basically means that in order for a model to have wargear, it must be modelled on their, or, failing that, you must inform your opponent.

@engelus

Anything is a CCW. I could give a marine a thunder hammer, and count it as a CCW instead if I so desired. However, it must be explained to your opponent if your army uses non standard CCWS. For marines, that means pretty much anything aside from chainblades, combat knives, and trophy weapons. (Like an ork choppa that was picked up by a vet sergeant) Regarding scratchbuilding, as long as what you're building bears some resemblence to the weapon it's supposed to be (i.e. power axe is axe shaped, on a long pole and maybe has some wires sticking out of it) you're fine.
 

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No, don't think so. I believe it actually states in the rules that you don't HAVE to, but that most players do merely as a passing courtesy.
 

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This is actually a a really interesting discussion, mainly about where you draw the line between wysiwyg and grim reality. If your going to change your hq equipment every so often, it seems stupid to keep chopping and changing your models.

My personal preference would be as long as a power weapon is shown as a power weapon, a power fist/klaw is a fist/klaw, a bolter is a bolter etc I have no issues. If someone hasn't modelled smaller things I don't mind at all, as long as the main wargear is in place.
 

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Even though you don't have to tell your opponent what models are in your transport, I think you should tell your opponent what's in a transport, or at least how many models are in the transport, just incase someone accidentally puts too many models in a transport. Actually, once, during a game against an eldar player, I was shocked when 10 dire avengers came out of a falcon tank. I didn't complain about it though because the game was almost over and the dire avengers were nowhere near anything they could hurt (by the time he had a chance to shoot at my terminators, he had already killed them with his autarch and his falcon tank.
 

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how would my chaos raptor mini be effected by wysiwyg, i hated the way he looked with standard lightening claws so i modelled them out of tyranid spikey bits and stuck them to a pair of power fists, they look more chunky but also more chaosy than the standard claws. if i use him do i have to go with the power fists he's actually got or the claws i made?
 

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That shouldn't be a problem at all. If they're 'power fists with claws' that should be fine. Just, before a game, point them out and say "I modelled those lightning claws out of power fists and tyrannid spikey bits...". Can't see anyone having a problem with that, and you might even get the odd "cool, they look wicked, I might try that", which is always nice (it does sound cool, actually, I might try that...).

 

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what does WYSIWYG mean, i feel like a n00b
What
you
see
is
what
you
get.

Basically, if you have a terminator Chaos Space Marine, it cannot count as a Daemon Prince with Daemonic Stature.

Myself, I prefer the secrecy. No lists are divulged, until the end game, when the GM will check and if anything happened that was not on the list, for example, a Predator you equipped sponsons on, but chose not to pay for the upgrades, but you fire the weapons, then the game is annulled, the person who suffered under the effect of WYSIWIG breach getting a win. However, if both cheated, then they get a loss marked on both score sheets.



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Basic rules do apply. If something is exactly what it looks like you don't need to tell anything. If something is not what it looks like you have a responsibility to tell the opponent and are, in fact, cheating if you do not. As long as you have made your opponent aware of all of your model divergences you have no other compulsions.

It is common manners to swap lists after the event, both to prove neither cheated, and to allow both players a better understanding of how the game's result came about.
 
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