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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Also, are you thinking that Blood Angels number can be amended in future Forge World book(according to Forge World, tentatively book 8)? How about your opinion?
 

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The Emperor Protects
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So you mean during the Great Crusade or 40k? Because 40k both are pretty adherent to the codex and number the standard 1000. The Blood Angels were listed as 100,000 strong in Fear to Tread. Not certain, but fairly sure the White Scars are fairly average, 80,000 - 100,000 range.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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The warhammer wiki says that, but provides no source as usual. I've never read in any of the official material anything about their size. Ilya Ravelion in Scars, amongst other things or trying to find out their size, but their organisation just makes it impossible. There's no reason they should be small though.
 

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Wow only 7k marines of the White scars? I don't believe that; if you could find a source for that number it'd be interesting, possibly my least favourite legion personally but that is interesting.
 

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So you mean during the Great Crusade or 40k? Because 40k both are pretty adherent to the codex and number the standard 1000. The Blood Angels were listed as 100,000 strong in Fear to Tread. Not certain, but fairly sure the White Scars are fairly average, 80,000 - 100,000 range.
I thought the BAs were 120,000 and knocked down to 100,000 after the Traitor's trap?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So you mean during the Great Crusade or 40k? Because 40k both are pretty adherent to the codex and number the standard 1000. The Blood Angels were listed as 100,000 strong in Fear to Tread. Not certain, but fairly sure the White Scars are fairly average, 80,000 - 100,000 range.
Great Crusade, of course. See the Forge World mention. And I think Vth Legion has to be rather large(I personally conjecture between 150,000 to 200,000), just similar way as the Alpha Legion, especially considering this intriguing tidbit...

Documentary evidence attests that the IVth Legion gene-seed showed an above-average adaptability and rates of implant rejection were notably low, particularly in comparison with difficulties in large scale implantation encountered with other Progenoid types, which would not be eliminated until the acquisition of the gene-labs of Luna. This advantage meant that the IVth Legion's fighting strength was built rapidly, expanding to several fully battle-ready battalions in size while some of the other nascent Legions were still yet unable to field more than an active century. This in turn meant that the IVth Legion was very swiftly put to active-service alongside the Ist and Vth Legions.
Also, as fare as I know, "fairly average" Legion size means 100,000 to 130,000. And above 150,000 is deemed as "mid-high" range, whilst 80,000 to 100,000 is definitely below average to the smallest.

Finally, I guess it is very probable that Dark Angels are one of largest, if not largest, Legions, even after infamous Rangdan Xenocide.

I thought the BAs were 120,000 and knocked down to 100,000 after the Traitor's trap?
I speculate it can be very much reshuffled in the next Forge World installment. Because that 120,000 number seems, apparently, did not include or reckon other handful of Blood Angels elements and detachments spread(or stranded) across galaxy after all.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yeah sorry Fear to Tread does say 120,000. And that's meant to be their entire Legion. But obviously others are still scattered about, such as the guys on Molech. They shouldn't amount to a huge amount though. But yeah, the FW book they appear in will no doubt bump it up.

Dark Angels were meant to be huge until the Xenocide, dropped down to the average or lower for sure, but then Luther did streamline and improve training and recruitment so much that who knows how big.

The V legion are pretty scattered as well due to their style and organisation. I imagine they will be above the average when revealed in the FW books.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah sorry Fear to Tread does say 120,000. And that's meant to be their entire Legion. But obviously others are still scattered about, such as the guys on Molech. They shouldn't amount to a huge amount though. But yeah, the FW book they appear in will no doubt bump it up.

Dark Angels were meant to be huge until the Xenocide, dropped down to the average or lower for sure, but then Luther did streamline and improve training and recruitment so much that who knows how big.

The V legion are pretty scattered as well due to their style and organisation. I imagine they will be above the average when revealed in the FW books.
I reread Fear to Tread and yeah, it seems author really meant 120,000 as whole. However obviously "others" are still scattered across galaxy and of course, more importantly, FW tends to bump up already tenfold Legion size. Hell, even Ultramarines have been bumped up. Hitherto poor Fists are sole exception. After release of the Crimson Fists, they get not bumped at all. It seems that Alan Bligh and other members have decided keeping Fists as small as possible while routinely massacring them time and again.

Although yeah, I agree their amount will not be huge. According to new and fresh lore they have always been one of the most genetically unstable Legions after all and I doubt there recruitment pool would be extensive enough to expand them one of the larger Legions(they have only three secondary recruitment worlds).

No, in Xenocide they had lost only 50,000, and still huge. It seems even after Xenocide, only Ultramarines and possibly several of other largest Legions outnumbered them. And in the Wolf King, Dark Angels commander explicitly states they are larger and more powerful than any period...so yeah, we can vaguely guess their number. And who knows how many recruitment worlds and outposts they doubtlessly have in the galactic fringes and void beyond?

So now you have changed your mind and also consider WS will be revealed to have 150,000+ legionaries? As a side note, in 30k, they now even rule private interstellar empire of the Kolrarne Circle, just as the Iron Warriors do in the Meratara Cluster or Ultramarines do in Ultramar.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Not so much changed my mind, just FW always hikes the numbers up with each successive book.

Also the White Scars gene-seed is quite stable with little to no mutations. So there's no reason why they shouldn't have a large recruitment pool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not so much changed my mind, just FW always hikes the numbers up with each successive book.

Also the White Scars gene-seed is quite stable with little to no mutations. So there's no reason why they shouldn't have a large recruitment pool.
Umm...yes? I'm a little confused with what are you indicating. Would you mind if I ask to you elaboration?

Also, how the hell gene seed stability could be associated with size and range of recruitment pool? I mean, former is related with easiness of gene seed implant and/or replication, while latter is related with size potential population base and/or number of recruitment worlds. Two are completely and utterly irrelevant extrinsic factors.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Umm...yes? I'm a little confused with what are you indicating. Would you mind if I ask to you elaboration?

Also, how the hell gene seed stability could be associated with size and range of recruitment pool? I mean, former is related with easiness of gene seed implant and/or replication, while latter is related with size potential population base and/or number of recruitment worlds. Two are completely and utterly irrelevant extrinsic factors.
Elaborate on which part?

I seem to have misinterpreted you talking about the Blood Angels instability, thinking you meant the White Scars. You seemed to have cited the Blood Angels instability for their size. But the more stable and mutation free the gene seed is, the higher the chance of successfully implanting it into a marine will be. With instability comes risks, flaws that need to be watched out for, chance of rejection by the host. Without all these, you can recruit a lot more aspirants and speed up the process much more. Or so I would imagine. You can have a huge recruitment pool. But if your gene seed is unreliable as hell, you aren't going to punch out the same volume as you could if it was stable. And as of the Great Crusade era the Scars were still being supplied with their share of recruits from Terra as well as Chogoris, the latter not having been noted as scare in aspirants. I imagine it would be quite plentiful in fact.
 

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Also the White Scars gene-seed is quite stable with little to no mutations. So there's no reason why they shouldn't have a large recruitment pool.
Small wandering tribes means a--relatively--small pool of aspirants to draw upon.

We see in Scars that some minority is drawn from Terra, but it seems most of the men come from Chorgoris.

I don't see the White Scars being one of the larger legions, personally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Elaborate on which part?

I seem to have misinterpreted you talking about the Blood Angels instability, thinking you meant the White Scars. You seemed to have cited the Blood Angels instability for their size. But the more stable and mutation free the gene seed is, the higher the chance of successfully implanting it into a marine will be. With instability comes risks, flaws that need to be watched out for, chance of rejection by the host. Without all these, you can recruit a lot more aspirants and speed up the process much more. Or so I would imagine. You can have a huge recruitment pool. But if your gene seed is unreliable as hell, you aren't going to punch out the same volume as you could if it was stable. And as of the Great Crusade era the Scars were still being supplied with their share of recruits from Terra as well as Chogoris, the latter not having been noted as scare in aspirants. I imagine it would be quite plentiful in fact.
Elaboration of below quote;

Not so much changed my mind, just FW always hikes the numbers up with each successive book.

I have solely and exclusively meant White Scars.

Small wandering tribes means a--relatively--small pool of aspirants to draw upon.

We see in Scars that some minority is drawn from Terra, but it seems most of the men come from Chorgoris.

I don't see the White Scars being one of the larger legions, personally.
If they are only recruiting from the Empty Quarter and somehow wholesale neglecting other densely populated regions of Chogoris.

Furthermore, according to new FW lore, they now rule their own interstellar empire -- Kolarne Circle/Cluster.
 

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Elaboration of below quote;
If they are only recruiting from the Empty Quarter and somehow wholesale neglecting other densely populated regions of Chogoris.

Furthermore, according to new FW lore, they now rule their own interstellar empire -- Kolarne Circle/Cluster.
Which densely populated regions of the planet? Surely not the weak city folk? I assumed they primarily recruit from the nomadic tribes.

And according to Scars the White Scars were moving towards only recruiting from Chogoris.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Which densely populated regions of the planet? Surely not the weak city folk? I assumed they primarily recruit from the nomadic tribes.

And according to Scars the White Scars were moving towards only recruiting from Chogoris.
Yeah, however FW stuffs are prone to subvert, modify, rectify or change previously established BL lore. And Legion recruitment pattern is just one of many.
 

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Yeah, however FW stuffs are prone to subvert, modify, rectify or change previously established BL lore. And Legion recruitment pattern is just one of many.
Assuming that it did, could you cite where they primarily recruit from a wide span of planets?
 

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Dark Angels were meant to be huge until the Xenocide, dropped down to the average or lower for sure, but then Luther did streamline and improve training and recruitment so much that who knows how big.
In Wolf King there is apparently the makings of a whole other DA legion hiding out in the Alaxess Nebula, raised and sent there by Luther on the orders of the Lion. They are the ones that rescue the Wolves from the AL.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yeah read it too. Can't really comment on Dark Angel numbers now, no idea of who is on Luthers side, who is on the Lions, who is on one of theirs but doesn't know why etc etc etc.

Sigh.
 

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Small wandering tribes means a--relatively--small pool of aspirants to draw upon.

We see in Scars that some minority is drawn from Terra, but it seems most of the men come from Chorgoris.

I don't see the White Scars being one of the larger legions, personally.
Recruiting from Chogoris does not mean only recruting nomads

EDIT: I see someone has raised that point.

The sedentary peoples might produce a lower ratio of tough specimens...but the sedentary people's are likely much more numerous
 
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