Refer to the attached picture.
I am playing Necrons against Imperial Guard. The IG player has only played at this shop twice (this game being his second time). I will say that perhaps he won't be coming back after this game. He didn't leave very happy...
Anyway, in the WH40k rulebook it specifically states vehicles do not gain the benefit of cover from behing "inside area terrain." I do not know if this includes being BEHIND area terrain or not. If you look at the picture, my Immortals (one of which has fallen down from my opponents' previous firing phase) is firing at his Leman Russ. The Leman Russ is the dark blue tank towards the left center portion of the picture.
Now, my claim to him was that he does not get a cover save as I can fully and clearly see his tank. His argument was that the limitations imposed by the design of the area terrain make it as though it only appears that way on the table, but out on an actual "WH40k battlefield" it would actually be a thick portion of trees; thus, granting 4+ cover.
This area terrain was made by a group of people I know that play at the shop I play at, but it was back in perhaps 3rd Edition or so and it was long before I started playing WH40k. I do not know if the terrain is just poorly made. I know I talked with the guy who made it and he said the reason why he made it like how he did was because if he actually put a bunch of trees on the base, then it would obviously be impossible to move models around inside of it. He said that back in older editions, you couldn't shoot through more than like 3" of area terrain or something of that nature. So, the rules we're a little bit more clearly defined. However, the rules have changed and he said the terrain the way it is designed will hardly ever grant 4+ cover to a vehicle because the way the trees are laid out on the base.
It is obvious to understand why my opponent was frustrated at the way we treated the terrain. He is playing IG with a bunch of tanks, and none of them we're ever granted cover, while my army was full of infrantry that got lots of cover simply due to being infantry that is sitting inside or behind area terrain. It also didn't help that he thought Necrons we're the most overpowered army ever in the history of the game because of Gauss weaponry. :/
So, I have two questions for you all:
1) Looking at the picture and the way the terrain is designed, do you feel that it should always be granting 4+ cover to vehicles AND infantry even though you can perfectly see through the terrain? Or do we stand by what the WH40k book says and if half of the vehicle isn't blocked by LoS, then they don't get cover?
2) Are there any sort of rulings like this for "official" tournaments like 'Ard Boyz? I would honestly like to see if there are any judges or what-not that could take a look at a piece of area terrain like this and say how it should be treated.
I apologize if the picture is hard to see. Any response is greatly appreciated!
I am playing Necrons against Imperial Guard. The IG player has only played at this shop twice (this game being his second time). I will say that perhaps he won't be coming back after this game. He didn't leave very happy...
Anyway, in the WH40k rulebook it specifically states vehicles do not gain the benefit of cover from behing "inside area terrain." I do not know if this includes being BEHIND area terrain or not. If you look at the picture, my Immortals (one of which has fallen down from my opponents' previous firing phase) is firing at his Leman Russ. The Leman Russ is the dark blue tank towards the left center portion of the picture.
Now, my claim to him was that he does not get a cover save as I can fully and clearly see his tank. His argument was that the limitations imposed by the design of the area terrain make it as though it only appears that way on the table, but out on an actual "WH40k battlefield" it would actually be a thick portion of trees; thus, granting 4+ cover.
This area terrain was made by a group of people I know that play at the shop I play at, but it was back in perhaps 3rd Edition or so and it was long before I started playing WH40k. I do not know if the terrain is just poorly made. I know I talked with the guy who made it and he said the reason why he made it like how he did was because if he actually put a bunch of trees on the base, then it would obviously be impossible to move models around inside of it. He said that back in older editions, you couldn't shoot through more than like 3" of area terrain or something of that nature. So, the rules we're a little bit more clearly defined. However, the rules have changed and he said the terrain the way it is designed will hardly ever grant 4+ cover to a vehicle because the way the trees are laid out on the base.
It is obvious to understand why my opponent was frustrated at the way we treated the terrain. He is playing IG with a bunch of tanks, and none of them we're ever granted cover, while my army was full of infrantry that got lots of cover simply due to being infantry that is sitting inside or behind area terrain. It also didn't help that he thought Necrons we're the most overpowered army ever in the history of the game because of Gauss weaponry. :/
So, I have two questions for you all:
1) Looking at the picture and the way the terrain is designed, do you feel that it should always be granting 4+ cover to vehicles AND infantry even though you can perfectly see through the terrain? Or do we stand by what the WH40k book says and if half of the vehicle isn't blocked by LoS, then they don't get cover?
2) Are there any sort of rulings like this for "official" tournaments like 'Ard Boyz? I would honestly like to see if there are any judges or what-not that could take a look at a piece of area terrain like this and say how it should be treated.
I apologize if the picture is hard to see. Any response is greatly appreciated!