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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm not exactly sure how daemons see. I'm thinking they don't see using their eyes where light strikes the retina and then a signal passes from the optic nerve to the brain. I'm thinking daemons don't have nerves or brains as such. I think they see using their connection to the warp to see where their enemy's souls are and attack that location. Can someone with more knowledge in Liber Daemonica advise on this?

If my thoughts about this are true, can daemons actually see Pariahs at all? Could a pariah simply walk past daemons due to being invisible?
EDIT - I've just read on Lexicanum that Pariah's are invisible to daemons but I'm always wary about info that states "Needs Citation"

Finally, I'm surprised that that Grey Knights don't use Pariahs. After all I'm sure they would have access to the same pool of recruits as the Culexus Temple, and Inquisitors are able to find them. Imagine how powerful a Pariah Grey Knight would be in fighting daemons.

EDIT - IF (a big if) Pariahs are invisible to Daemons it makes the idea of a Pariah Grey Knight an even better prospect.
 

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Daemons are given form by nightmares. We see them in a humanoid form, as thats how a human mind is trying to bring order and reason to the chaotic. But sometimes its too much, the horror of chaos spawn for one.

But yes, they navigate by seeing soulfires.
 

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I'm not exactly sure how daemons see.
Yeah, they see the souls of mortals. As for the Pariahs, I think there was a novel, can't remember which one, where demons could see a particularly strong one because of the hole he seemed to leave around him. Kinda like something passing in front of a really bright light. You can't see the object, just that it's blocking the light behind it. They were still repelled by it though.

As for GKs using them, they are anathema to what the GKs are. They wouldn't be able to share the same air as them. On top of that, psykers are much more common than Pariahs, so any Pariahs that are discovered will be earmarked for more specialised roles within the Inquisition or Assassins.
 

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IRONBORN
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In the new Talon of Horus book,
As Brother Lucian says, they do see soulfires but they can sort of see normally just that everything is dark. Hopefully somebody could explain it better than me.

I think Pariahs have been retconned. From what I recall, they were mainly a necron thing and when they got their (new) codex they never mentioned Pariahs.
 

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Rattlehead
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There's a passage in the 5th edition Daemons codex that's told from the perspective of a Herald of Khorne, and he can distinguish that the Space Marines he's fighting are armoured in red.

If they just saw souls, they'd be running into trees and things all the time, so there's definitely some kind of obstacle detection in there somewhere.
 

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If they just saw souls, they'd be running into trees and things all the time, so there's definitely some kind of obstacle detection in there somewhere.
Of course they see more than just the soul, but everything else is just variations of shadow. I think it was in Wrath of Iron that it describes what the Slaaneshi demons saw when fighting the Iron Hands during the battle under the hive they were trying to assault, and that was pretty much it.

Interesting to note in that that the normal humans souls burned brighter than the IHs, something that the IH librarian ruminates on when he sees it for himself. His chapter brothers are loosing their souls to all the augmetic enhancements they give themselves.
 

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IRONBORN
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Need to spoiler your post bud.
Apologies, I didn't feel it was a spoiler but I rectified the post nontheless.

EDIT: I don't want to derail the thread or anything, but can anyone confirm that Pariahs do exist still?
 

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Yeah, they see the souls of mortals. As for the Pariahs, I think there was a novel, can't remember which one, where demons could see a particularly strong one because of the hole he seemed to leave around him. Kinda like something passing in front of a really bright light. You can't see the object, just that it's blocking the light behind it. They were still repelled by it though.

As for GKs using them, they are anathema to what the GKs are. They wouldn't be able to share the same air as them. On top of that, psykers are much more common than Pariahs, so any Pariahs that are discovered will be earmarked for more specialised roles within the Inquisition or Assassins.
According to the emperor's gift the grey knights do have pariah/blanks.

They're rare but they are there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
According to the emperor's gift the grey knights do have pariah/blanks.

They're rare but they are there.
Oh cool, thanks for the info. Thanks to everyone else too :)
 

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IRONBORN
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There are Culexus assassins in the new data slate, so yep, they do.
Ahh thanks :) I thought it would've been a shame if they got rid of that bit of fluff.
 

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I think the way daemons see is just as varied as the daemons themselves. I'm sure some see humans as we do, some as flames of psychic heat, others as, I dunno, giant meatballs with cheese on them. And everything in between.

According to the emperor's gift the grey knights do have pariah/blanks.

They're rare but they are there.
Er, uh, what? Citation, please?

I have a digital copy, and I looked for "blank" (which didn't even touch on the psychic blanks, mostly the word blanket) and pariah (which didn't even appear in the entire novel!) and found no reference to pariah Grey Knights.

So citation, please?
 

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I think Reaper is referring to the guy who Hyperion gives the casket of his fallen brother to. I can't remember what he's called, but it's just after the squad gets back to Titan. I think Hyperion makes a comment like "What are you?" And other such things that would imply that the guy is a blank.

That's just my guess though
 

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Ah, the ferryman.

He's an enigma. He's clearly an astartes...but whether he's a Grey Knight or not is left unclear and open to interpretation.

He does say he is "of Titan", so there's weight to suggest he is a Grey Knight.

On the other hand, Hyperion says that the ferryman is a slave. So I dunno...
 

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Ah, the ferryman.

He's an enigma. He's clearly an astartes...but whether he's a Grey Knight or not is left unclear and open to interpretation.

He does say he is "of Titan", so there's weight to suggest he is a Grey Knight.

On the other hand, Hyperion says that the ferryman is a slave. So I dunno...
He has to be a blank, in all honestly what else would he be?

That makes no sense...that's like putting a rapist with a nun fetish in a nunnery.
Why? Blanks are athame to daemons. They also are the only humans who are essentially incorruptible by the warp.

Wouldn't it make sense for the Grey knights to use them to look after their honored dead? after all there's a chance a daemon could possess a dead body and bring it back.
 

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He has to be a blank, in all honestly what else would he be?
The question isn't whether he's a blank or not--that's amply clear. The question is whether or not he's a Grey Knight or not.

Why? Blanks are athame to daemons.
They also have this distasteful aura that makes everyone hate them, psykers more so than others (which include the rest of the Chapter). Still, we see in the Ravenor series that there things called limiters that nullify a blank's blankness. I could see them being useful.

On the other hand, the rareness of a blank is astronomical. One in a billion, I believe? If their attrition rate for them is anything like the psyker attrition rate (one in a million psykers succeeded in become a Grey Knight), it'd be a waste of resources.
 

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Why? Blanks are athame to daemons. They also are the only humans who are essentially incorruptible by the warp.

Wouldn't it make sense for the Grey knights to use them to look after their honored dead? after all there's a chance a daemon could possess a dead body and bring it back.
As hailen said they exude an aura of disgust, a blank could look like the hottest woman in existence that makes even SMs think about knocking boots the aura will make ANYONE, except MAYBE another blank, that gets close enough despise her. In the first Eisenhorn (sp?) book when he met Bequin he could barely keep himself from shooting her when he was questioning her and the astropath like wise was horrified by her presence, referring to her as IT. She also mentioned that she had been chased away from 3 planets because she always seemed to upset someone powerful even if she never misbehaved. It's this revulsion that I don't think he could of been a blank unless MAYBE he had a nulifier.
 

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Blanks still exist. Their affiliation with the necrons is all that was retconned. The Imperium, mostly the inquisition, still uses them.


As for how daemons see, I always assumed that by entering the materium, they become subject to material laws. Meaning they would have forms similar to mortal forms, if a good deal more resilient and composed of warp stuff rather than flesh.

I've always assumed their eyes work basically like normal. Only they can see souls burning brighter among everything else, whereas pariahs would block those lights out and just appear empty.
 
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