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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been fortunate enough to play a few games against daemons recently, and I'm rather confused.
How in the world are Daemons supposed to be able to beat a decent Tyranid army?

It seems like everything the daemons can do, the nids do better.

The Daemons deployment is suicidal versus nids. Every single game the nids are fast enough to swarm and devestate almost everything that makes it onto the board before it has a chance to start moving itself.

With the exception of Slaaneshi, nids have better initiative, with everything else being almost equal in most cases.

The only unit I've had any problems with at all is a Skulltaker led Juggernaught stampede. And even that goes down rather fast when it gets hit with enough str 5 and 6 wounds.

I'm a nid player, but I'm wondering if there is an effective strategy for Daemons to beat nids. Anyone got anything?
 

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A well built and well played daemon army should beat a nid army... but a badly played and built daemon force just wont stand a chance. Daemons are about the worst army for beginners, but an experienced player can use them very well.

A nurgle tally will cause havoc for nids- get lots of easy kills off of gaunts/hormogaunts and then have plaguebearers/nurglings wound all nids on a 2+ with no saves.
Skulltaker can drive through pretty much anything, be it on juggernaut or not, and to a lesser extent so will all knornate units (if they live long enough). I recon nids will have real trouble with things like daemonettes since their high I and rending will mean they can beat almost anything other then stealers (which they will probably kill, but die at the same time)... and nids dont normally have enough shooting to take out large blocks of them.

Mostly though I would say its down to how you play- the standard DS in close, survive for a turn and then assault tactics of a lot of daemon players wont work. I've met a hoard stealers army with my tzeentch daemons in a tourny before now: I just avoided and split them until I could take them on piecemeal (draw 1 unit, kill it... move onto the next thing).
 

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As nasty as the Tyranids are, we Daemons have their number as long as we play intelligently and make the right choices as far as splitting our army into waves and have the right units.

Tim/Steve outlined a lot of the stuff I would've suggested (ninja'd!), so I'll recount a couple of tales and hope that people can draw something useful from them.

Once, Skulltaker killed a Carnifex (that had charged him) before it even got to strike. All the points spent on crushing claws, bio-plasma and so on went to waste as Skulltaker dropped an approximately 200 point model in a single turn.

Another time, 10 Daemonettes held up and eventually killed a Tyrannofex (probably by standing underneath him and stabbing his soft belly :p).

My Bloodthirster has also beaten the crap out of a Hive Tyrant in a single round. Make sure that you get the charge and nobody bar the Swarmlord can hope to stop you (just be careful if the Tyrant or his Guard have lashwhips).

Oh and a general tip against Tyranids - don't forget your Pink Horrors. Those guys can chew through large numbers of Gaunts and Genestealers with little effort. Just be sure to have a second unit nearby to bail the Horrors out of combat if the Gaunts get lucky and manage to assault you (Horrors have 18" range - Gaunts can move 6", fleet 6" and assault, which is just enough to reach you). A squad of Daemonettes or Bloodletters is best for this.

Also, Plaguebearers excel at tying down things like Hive Guard and shooty Tyranid Warriors. It's unlikely that you'll actually kill these units with Plaguebearers, but you can trap them in close combat for an extremely long time if you do it right.

Best of luck!

Katie D
 

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Both Daemons and Tyranids excel at murdering non-mech infantry armies, so battles between them are going to be bloodbaths.

For specific anti-Tyranid picks, Nurgle Princes and GUOs can use Noxious Touch to great effect. They will wound anything in the army on a 2+ with re-rolls and ignore armor. Beyond Zoanthropes, Swarmy, and the DOOM, Tyranids have no invulnerable saves so MCs with higher I tend to hurt badly.

Bloodcrushers are a bitch for Tyranids to bring down outside of MCs and Paroxysm. Skulltaker in particular is problematic.

Pavane is a handy upgrade to push Termagants out of range of their momma Tervigon (those little buggers with toxin sacs and counter-attack can kill just about anything with startling regularlity) or push units outside of Synapse or range of buffs like Old Adversary.

Now, a more balanced army will be capable against Tyranids as well. Mine, for example, has mobilty, firepower and HtH presence to catch up to the bugs and either blast them or slap them silly in HtH.

Daemons are tricky for newer players to use and will always be hampered by their inherent randomness, but they are capable against Tyranids.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
My opponent isn't too shabby. He took 2nd at this year's Ard Boyz. I would assume he's competent in his craft.

I've been really giving it thought today. There were some things that are starting to stand out. The broodlord's Mesmeric Gaze and Swarmlord's Paroxym killed just about every IC and MC in the demon armies.

I mean Skulltaker got downed by Mesmeric Gaze from a broodlord and 4 toxin stealers. (His Psychic Defense (if you can call it that) is definetly a by product of 4th edition and not 5th)

I'm going to try not using those abilities in the next couple of games against demons and see if its as much of a daemon army killer as I'm beginning to suspect.
 

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Mesemeric gaze is a cool power.. but it is rare that it works unless the stealers charge- so dont let them charge. Rememeber that you can always use your 6" move to move away from the enemy as well as closer. If you charge the stealers just make sure you send a standard bloke inot the broodlord and keep HQs away.
Paroxism is nasty for daemons since its very hard to get round- you could try to charge from outside of 12" range (so let the enemy move foraward and then use fleet/wings to charge from range) although I would be using daemonettes/fiends or the equivalent to charge big things like the swarmlord since he is nasty enough to kill your MCs, but the number of attacks from little things can take him down (daemonettes are literally perfect for killing him).


But basically if you're playing someone who came 2nd at 'ardboys (I think I know the army you are facing) then you'll probably never win- even with a super beefy army unless you have your tactics really well honed you wouldn't expect to beat someone that good... but keep trying, its the best way to learn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Actually, this thread was created after playing the 2nd place army list. (Yeah we all know the list.)

People are going to say I'm bragging (I'm not), but I tabled the list. And we both had decent dice.

Now I can accept that I do play an abnormal tyranid list that uses things others scoff at, but it gets the job done.

=========
Fateweaver went down round one to 2 squads of toxin stealers each with a broodlord, which I figure was a crippling blow to the army.

With the exception of Skulltaker and his Juggernaughts, one Soul Grinder( I rolled all 1's and 2's on the damage chart), and a Demon Prince, nothing that DSed in made it to its next turn after arriving.

It either got swamped with stealers/swarmlord/trygon smashes or was bombarded back to the warp by biovores and triple harpy pie plate spam.
==========

And this happened twice in a row.
There was nowhere he could safely DS without being in charge range. (He actually tried dropping icon plaguebearers in a corner but that went off the table, rolled a 3, and promplty were set right in front of my Trygon! He didn't try for the corners after that).
Hence why I've been wondering at how they can do it.
I do believe each of you, but I think you all know something that we don't. Do you spam 36 flamers or something? Spam Juggernaughts?

Anyways, like I said Mesmeric Gaze and Paroxym are getting the shaft for a few games coming up until I can weigh in on just how much they hurt the demon armies.


Tim/Steve: You made me chuckle. "so dont let them charge". Ha. That's a good one. If you know that secret, you should sell it to the imperium. They'd pay good money for it.
 
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