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Discussion Starter #1
As the title says this is about the eldar phoenix lords. Whilst they are good at the moment I feel that they could have rules that make them better to use and more fluffy. Here is some suggestions but feel free to add more.

Adjust the disciples rule so that selecting that phoenix lord makes their aspect type a core choice (choosing Karandras for example makes striking scorpions core choices) Although I am not sure how this affects Asurmen

Give all phoenix lords an invulnerable save because with the independent character rules makes them easy to target with power weapons. I would like to see a minimum save of 5+ but would prefer a 4+ save-replace Asurmen's with either a 3 or 2+ invun save

Make a phoenix lord for the warp spiders and the shining spears already!

Give them the inspiring presence rule similar to the avatar because the eldar respect their gods of war and maybe a fearing presence rule that stops them joining "civilian" units like guardians, support platforms, rangers, seer councils etc since they fear them as much as they respect them. This rule could also cause a negative leadership modifier to enemies

Any other ideas?
 

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For me it would mostly be to give them a 5+ invun save, as you said, i steer clear currently due to a lot of points for a model that can be easily singled out by a power weapon.

I'd like to see it so they can only join their aspect, not just disallowed to join other aspects. I think with these it would be enough. I'd fear making their aspect core otherwise Fuegan will be mandatory and the FD spam would be insane.
 

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I like the idea about giving them inspiring presence, it would make quite a difference in certain units.

Making aspect warriors troops would cause some issues, I can see the all fire dragons army getting yells of cheese!

To be completely boring, what they really need is a points reduction. Maybe tie this to inclusion of the relevant aspect warriors as an honour guard. The thing which usually stops me playing them is what they cost tbh as when I can afford them I would rather take a farseer.

Maybe another option would be to allow them to be taken as an additional HQ choice if accompanied by a full strength honour guard without exarch. This would get them played much more often in higher points games.

Invlulnerable saves would be a must - all characters should have them, even if its a crappy save it makes a huge difference.

Maybe they could be given useful extra exarch abilities only confered to the correct aspect squad? Kandaras giving his scorpions additional attacks on the charge, Fuegen giving firedragons addional cc attacks vs vehicles and Baharoth making swooping hawks no total shite.
 

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Make them a lot cheaper would be a good start. Give them all an invun save. Maybe if they provided a very powerful boost to whichever unit they joined, like Jain Zar gives her banshee squad furious charge and WS5, or Asurmen gives his DAs BS5 and the ability to bladestorm every turn :p
 

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Give them all an invulnerbale save,
lower the points,
make it so yes they can have more of thier specific aspect in an army that includes them in it by not making them count towards the FOC so for Barroth the swooping hawks would be paid for but wouldn't coun for a slot in the FA, but say for Asurmen this would mean the eldar could have a potentially massive amounts of scoring units as he would still have to take 2 troops such as rangers or guardians but then could have limitless scoring dire avengers
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Okay main point about FD spam taken but lets look at the facts before declaring that everyone would do it.

If these changes take place it would occur after a new codex and with FD being cheap at the moment I see a points rise for them.

Fire dragons are very good against 1 thing in particular-tanks. Therefore lack of shots will result in a FD Eldar army struggling against hordes or very static forces like IG, Orks, Tyranids, Certain Space Marine and Tau for example.

With a predictable rise in points a FD army will have very few fire dragons and therefore with their mediocre CC skills they can be taken down rather quickly.

I would be more worried about a striking scorpion army where every model could infiltrate (scorps with exarch, scorpions claw and shadowstrike skill come to mind)


Oh towards an older comment saying phoenix lords should only be with their respective aspects-I disagree with this as this make some phoenix lords kitted out for CC (Maugan Ra and Fuegan come to mind) completely overlooked.
 

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Yes whilst you may have mass fire dragons or scorpions you'll still need 2 troop choices and most will still take a farseer aswell so you'd only see really dangerous armies in say 1500pts (or maybe more) and over games, still a bet a 1500pts ork horde army could easily munch a 2000pt fire dragon heavy army scorpions yes have the infiltrate but again suffer from - no fleet, and being easily shot down as they would be very close turn 1 to the enemy!
 

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I think that rather than making aspect warriors core troops taking their pheonix lord could make the aspect a scoring unit (The same as Kantor does for sternguard.)
Other than that a decent save and letting them bring a squad of their aspect as a bodyguard would be enough.
 

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I would like them to see the pheonix lords get a honour guard type choice and made of exarches or some elite aspect shrine ,would also like to see them get new plastic models and a shit load of ornate wargear options.
After all these guys are supposed to be legendary warriors no way would you let them walk into battle alone, also i agree they should also have some universal inspirational power.



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Discussion Starter #11
How about a bodyguard of exarchs! (Imagine Maugan Ra with 5 reaper exarchs all with missile launchers with fast shot or 5 with tempest launchers and crack shot-best combo ever!)
 

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- Give thme all Rune armour (4++) with Azu's being uped to 3+(due to Fspecial forceshield or soemthing)
- Lord for Siders atleast and possibly Shinning spears too
- ALL the same cost(about 200pts i think wouldm be right)
 

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Things PL need:

They need to be cheaper. A lot cheaper. The Avatar should be their big, north of 'drad HQ choice (and he should be worth it!), not the lords.

Better stats. Invuln saves (3++ for Asurman, 5++ or even 4++ for the rest), that sort of thing

Completely change the bulk of them so that they fit their aspect. Fuegan does no good to Fire Dragons. Muegan Ra... is the sole playable one, and he doesn't play well the Reapers. They have to synergize with their aspect, y'know?

Make them change the FOC. Either make their aspect troops (a la warbosses on bikes or captains on bikes), or give them one units for free that they have to be a part of that is outside of the FOC that is scoring. I prefer the first one but either one would do something.

They were cheaper, actually synergized with their aspect and actually altered the FOC, they'd be a solid addition to the codex.
 

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Invulnerable saves are absolutely 100% needed. If every Lord had a 5+ Invul they'd be much better choices. Additionally, Phoenix Lords need to do more for the army than simply enhance whichever unit they join. Making their Aspect scoring units would be fantastic, or making all members of their Aspect Fearless or adding some other ability that acts as a force multiplier.
 

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Just tossing an idea up but from the fluff when a pheonix lord is killed another exarch can take up the armour and become the pheonix lord again. And it can happen mid-battle. So maybe instead of an invunerable save have some sort of rule along the lines of when they die you can remove the squads exarch they were with and replace it with the pheonix lord. Maybe to keep balance only be able to do it once or the Lord comes back wounded or you can only do it on a 3 or 4+.

Bit of inspiration from Path of the warrior there.
 
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