[Dugong]

Hi,

I was playing an IG a few days ago and he took several flyers, as i recall 3 were valkyries, one was a vandetta and another was a heavy bomber of some sort. As he was moving his massive 8000 point army (i was gobsmacked at how much there was) he gave me a crash course on how flyers work since i've never played them before. the main points were:

To shoot them the range is measured base to base as normal but add 12"
you can't assult them unless they're hovering or something
they can contest objectives if they're flying (so i can't assult it or shoot with meltas, but he can contest if the base is within 3")
When shooting at it you need a 6 unless your weapon is pintle mounted


Since i never played his army before i accepted these rules at face value, but it was impossible to drop any of these things. My army as well was a vindi, obliterators, DP and foot troops (i was playing with a few allies to balance the points). So i have a few questions to ask, namely:

1. were the rules i stated correct (as in he was he giving me the slip)
2. is there any csm pintle mounted weapon that stands a decent chance at killing them
3. how does csm army counter a unit like this?

Since obliterators only hit on 6's, most pintle mouted weapons are combi-weapons and they don't have the range. the only thing i can think of is the weapons on a land raider, and even then i'm not sure. also i don't have one so that doesn't help me.

In short, what can i do to get rid of those pesky fliers if i play that army again?

 

[edd_thereaper]

as there are flyers involved, and as you mentioned 8000 points i take it you were playing appocalypse

right then, chaos space marines have their own selection of flyers availible from forgeworld which could take out other flyers

hell talon

Hell blade

however these aren't exactly cheap, you could also "induct" a hydra anti aircraft tank and use it as a renagade one

as for weapons already in the codex, there aren't many, if any designed for killing aircraft as they're rarely used in regular 40k games

hope this helps

edd

 

[MidnightSun]

Lascannons in CSM squads?

Midnight

 

[Dugong]

Yes it was an apochlypse match, it was effectively 8000pts of guard vs 4 200pt armies which included me with my csm.

Thanks for the reply and it sounds to me that the only way i can effectively take down one of his 4 flyers is if i get flyers myself or nick someone's hydra. but i'm not keen on buying the forgeworld models and i don't think anyone at the time had a hydra tank that i could borrow, but even then 1 hydra won't last long since they'd be targetting it like mad and it's 1 hydra vs 4 flyers.

It seems that the best solution to me is to say before the match both sides should have equal flyers (or close to it) to keep it fair. but it was a quick random match at gw and i still enjoyed taking on blood angels with berzerkers, even if everything got bombed from the air. It was also fun to watch mephiston take on an avatar, that avatar needed eternal warrior badly.

 

[Creon]

Several Ideas.

1) Doomsday Device. Several options allow placement of barrage templates. They will autohit therefore, and take down flyers.

2) Vortex Grenade. If it touches it dies.

3) Shoot D pattern weapons at things nearby the base of the flyer.

4) Shoot Pattern weapons period. They always scatter, so the "6" to hit is moot. Plasma Cannon from obliterators seems useful.

 

[Viscount Vash]

If you want to build something from scratch then a few options spring up.

There are a couple ways to approach it though.

First and easiest option is to take a existing vehicles rules and just make a CSM version of it. Just make sure that its the same size and rough shape as the tank your redesigning. (Daemon engines offer great scope although anything added on to a rhino chassis.)

The second option is to just build a completely new concept and design a Datafax sheet for it. This can cause boringly long conversations about if its a fair result for the points etc.

For flyers check out the old Epic minis for Firelord of Tzeench (bomber)and the Doomwing
(fighter) as they could be an option if you fancy building 40k scale ones to use instead of the Hell Talon and Blade.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

If you want to use existing CSM units I have used the following rule which seems to be balanced enough for Apocalypse

Predictive Tracking (10 pts)(as it is not GW IP points value should be acceptable)
Vehicle Upgrade
Upgrade a weapon mount that has at least 180 arc and could - if not made out of toy tank bits - have vertical elevation to AA mount

For example, a Chimera Turret could be upgraded to better track fast moving aerial objects but a hull mounted heavy bolter could not.

As a devotee of Tzeentch I find it particularly appropriate.

 

[Deneris]

A few other ideas:

-Take the Long Range Ack-ack asset; Far as I can recall that should make life hell for at least one of his flyers.

-The "humble" CSM Landraider with a Havoc launcher can deny certain areas of the table to his flyers, as twin-linked s5 shots will still mess up most flyers. And can't you mount a Havoc system on your Vindicator?

-If he likes keeping the flyers in reserve take the Ambush asset... you might get lucky on a rear armor shot.

 

[cranvill]

id build a small traitor guard army , dont forgot you only need a single basic force organiasion (spelling) . so you could get two troop choices a hq choice and then some AA guns

 

[Bubblematrix]

Yes it was an apochlypse match, it was effectively 8000pts of guard vs 4 200pt armies which included me with my csm.

In this situation you will almost always get face planted by your opponent, may be a fun faceplant for you - but you are up against it

I think the traitor hydra is a nice option, or if you do feel like a FW kit then a chaos flyer

Another option is to limit flyers, remember Apoc is supposed to be fun and one guy with a load of flyers or superheavies blowing the shit out of a few others is very one sided fun