Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Warning Spoilers in parts

Horus Heresy Series
I love this series. Some people moan that it’s being dragged out but for me I hope they drag it out as long as possible. There is after all a lot to cover. I do feel however that the quality of writing varies considerably. In my opinion the best books so far are Legion, Horus Rising, The Flight of the Eisenstein and A Thousand Sons, in that order. I think that so far Legion really has been the stand out book. I would go as far to say it’s one of the best books I have ever read. The characters were extremely rich and interesting the story convincing and the twist fantastic (and I for one hope means that The Alpha Legion are not who they originally appeared to be in 40,000).

The next few in my list would be Mechanicum, Fulgrim and False Gods, again in that order. I enjoyed all these books immensely. My only complaint would be that I did not find the dream sequence (or whatever you would call it) in False Gods convincing as I did not feel that Erebus ‘s argument would have been enough to sway Horus, even with his mind poisoned by that blade. I thought that could have done with a bit of work.

The next two I thought were only ok. Battle for the Abyss and Galaxy in flames. I was disappointed in Galaxy because the first two books set the scene magnificently and I felt that it did not quite deliver (although I still enjoyed it). I thought that the inner conflict that the Astartes on both sides must have felt before they first fought each other face to face was not covered at all. Another area I felt that could have done with more work was exactly how these Lodges turned the Astartes against their Emperor.

Apart from the short stories that leaves two. Both about the Dark Angels who I feel have really been let down so far in this series. I much prefer Decent of Angels as although quite boring it does have some interesting aspects and at least the author seems to have made an effort.

For me Fallen Angles is a total joke, utter garbage that seems to have been written in the space of two days by someone that could not care less about what they were putting on paper. It really pi**es me off to be honest because it should be an honor to get to write about the heresy. There are so many things wrong with this book that the mind boggles. A total lack of attention to detail prevails throughout. For a start, the main characters from the first book seemed to have swapped identities. Wasn’t it Nemiel who had doubts about the Dark Angles in the first book? (Although to fair there was not much to separate their non existent personalities. If anything the character building is even worse in this book. Just a bunch of non-descript standard Space Maries and their Sergeant. ) Mike Lee regularly gets confused about his own characters and what they are doing. At one point in the book Marthes and Vardus seem to keep switching between carrying a meltagun and a heavy bolter. Later Nemiel is summarizing his squad’s injuries. He mentions the Astartes with the sore knee but does not seem to care that another of his brothers had his eye blasted off! This same guy has his helmet wreaked but is wearing it again a few pages later! At another point two Rhinos have their engines destroyed, another is blown apart and a fourth crashes. A few minutes later the same four Rhinos are driving off with troops on board!!! The author cannot even be bothered to get the color of the Sons of Horus’s armor right. Astelan is my biggest issue however. I have not read Angels of Darkness (just about to start) but I have read Call of the Lion (which I thoroughly enjoyed). I was very much looking forward to Astelan’s story ark in this book and his interaction with Israfael (a fellow Terran). Mike Lee obviously was not. He introduces him correctly as a Terran and then seems to forget this for the rest of the book; at one point he even has him banging on about creatures he came across as a kid, creatures that happen to be native to Caliban! Hmmm. LAZY SHOCKING PATHETIC.

There are a few other stupid mistakes as well. Even one of the few good bits, the assault on the deserted outpost, on refection seems to be a lift from Aliens.

What surprises me most through is that so many people seem to like this book (and obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion), but I just don’t get it. For me it’s just a load of mediocre non-stop action involving a bunch of non descript boring one dimensional characters.

I do really hope that Black Library only use their best authors in future on this series (Dan, Graham and James so far). On that note I’m really looking forward the First Heretic by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. I’ve yet to read one of his books but they all seem to get fantasitc reviews and his blog is great. I will be purchasing soon.
Any thoughts on all that guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Just a quick note on Fallen Angels. I remember it was one of the lesser books in the series. No writer ever sees his words in print exactly as he wrote them. There is always an editor involved, who is responsible for grammar, diction, consistency and fact-checking (among other things). The blame for the errors you cite must be shared between writer and editor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,908 Posts
I thought the follow up to fallen angels, descent of angels was cracking. Some very good twists and a fantastic ending!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
Call of the lion, i dont remember that book, could you tell me where you got it and who wrote it? I wouldnt mind getting it myself.

Ooops never mind i did read it, it was in tales of heresey

Oh and i have to say i thought decent of angels was pretty shit but fallen angels was a cracker of a book which really sets up for the final book of the trilogy.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
I have to agree with you mal310, Legion and Horus Rising are also my two favourite Heresy novels by far. I don't however share your apparent disgust of Fallen Angels, it was okay in my opinion - neither fantastic nor rubbish, but what I will say is that it was an enjoyable read, as is the whole Heresy series bar one (guess which one im referring to!).

I too thought that Galaxy in Flames was a poor conclusion to the opening trilogy (Horus Rising which was fantastic, and False Gods which was decent), maybe its just Ben Counter that im not a fan of, because the calm, calculated, brilliant tactician that was Warmaster Horus, turned into a cartoon villain. I thought his portrayal in the third novel was not justifiable at all.

Theres really only two novels out of the series so far that im not a fan off, one of them I detest (and their both by the same author... Im glad hes now off the HH team). The rest have been good and interesting reads with a few utterly fantastic additions thrown in. Overall though a highly enjoyable series, and I find myself as excited as a 8 year old about to go to Disneyland when a new novel is released. :p
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,028 Posts
Overall though a highly enjoyable series, and I find myself as excited as a 8 year old about to go to Disneyland when a new novel is released. :p[
Well then your next trip is only a few weeks off. Nemesis will be released very soon and I cannot wait for it, after what James Swallow told us in The Bolthole about an Assassin who is going to kill the Emperor, he will be nothing short of a monster. And I can't wait to see what he's like.

Personally my favourites are A Thousand Sons and Fulgrim, both of those were sheer triumphs of literature. A Thousand Sons is the best Horus Heresy book and probably will be for some time, and Fulgrim is a close second or third, depending on where Legion goes in that ranking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Galxey in flames, fulgrim,thousand sons are my favorites. Looking forward to The first heritic and nemesis looks intersesting. hopfully we will get to see something about peutrbo and i would love to have something on Dorn sometime. as for the dark angels books i thought they did a good job of making El'johnson look like a human in a primarchs body other then one who is sure of himself all the time. He made mistakes and that came back to haunt him (i hate him and his legion almost much as the ultrasmurfs by the way). Other then that they are a little off at spots but not terrible. We also need a book that gives us a indepth look at the emporer...dont tell me that wouldnt be awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
Nemesis is set to be certainly intruiging, and sating various fetishes for Assassin`s to some. Also, various characters from the Original Trilogy; such as Luc Sedirae are set to return, along with the famous Callidus M`shen, though only a brief mention for the latter.

Im currently reading Descent of Angels, and admittedly it is neither as well wrote as Horus Rising or False Gods, as jaw-breakingly slaughterous as Galaxy in Flames and Fulgrim, or as emotive (Terra-rise on Luna... glorious....) as The Flight of the Eisenstein, it still portrays the Lion to an acceptable standard, and its perspective is of moderate interest. Fallen Angels is next to my list, as I chat to Mike Lee occasionaly, enjoying his fluid style of writing in comparisson to the more description/characterisation heavy approach of the Dan Abnett and Graham McNeil.

As for Battle for the Abyss (which will inevitably be ridiculed/belittled/mocked upon Heresy no matter the context) I am yet to read it, although after Galaxy in Flames, I confess that Mr. Counter can deliver within various aspects unlike any other. One example is his ability to detail action, only inferior to McNeil and possibly Abnett. Amongst a plethora fantastic novels that plunge us into depths of emotional-reflection and ponder, and supreme character-development, I occassionally want ''Shit-to-die'', and Counter does this excellently and offers us a brief, enjoyable and simple respite from the more weighty and excellence-incarnate stuff from the others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,908 Posts
Battle for the abyss does just seem like its sunday afternoon cartoon.

The word bearers in it were pretty fucked up...by the word, have you heard the word? about the word? because by the word the word shall be worded. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,996 Posts
I loved Battle for the Abyss when I was re-reading it a few weeks ago. Easily one of the best Horus Heresy novels in my opinion, cliched plot aside. But then again, what novels now are not cliched?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,908 Posts
True, i enjoyed all the world eater parts, hell they the only parts i read!

I think what bugged me about the book was just how the word bearers were over simplified!
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
But then again, what novels now are not cliched?
Quite a few I would say. :)

I think what bugged me about the book was just how the word bearers were over simplified!
Thats the main thing that gets me so rattled up about it aswell. Ben Counter seems unable to develop any kind of intricacy with his 'bad guys'. Its similar to how he portrays Warmaster Horus in Galaxy in Flames. His novels just seem so black and white/good vs evil and very basic in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
Quite a few I would say. :)



Thats the main thing that gets me so rattled up about it aswell. Ben Counter seems unable to develop any kind of intricacy with his 'bad guys'. Its similar to how he portrays Warmaster Horus in Galaxy in Flames. His novels just seem so black and white/good vs evil and very basic in my opinion.
Gaunt`s Ghosts are highly cliched, and yet Gaunt and the Tanith First-and-Only are perhaps the best characters, within one of the best series Black Library has ever- and still continues to publish.

Onto the latter point: lets be realistic here. This is not Dan Abnett, we are not going to tear out our hearts for Counter`s characters are we? One anomalae to that is the continued portrayel of Torgaddon and especially Tarvitz in Galaxy in Flames which left me somewhat upset with both their deaths after a truly excellent continuation from False-Gods, of the Luna-Wolf joker and the subtle Emperors-Children line-officer.

The point is- well, what even was the original point of this thread?... Oh, Nemesis. Well, having read the extract from the pamphlet, and Erebus` portrayel is delicious, ''If a tactic can be used against us, it can be used by us''
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top