[the cabbage]

How do you do hills as far as cover saves.

I have the old GW hills at home and recently in nottingham played with the same hills.

At home I use them as level 2, ie block LOS to infantry and obscure vehicles.

In nottingham a very nice norwegian player pointed out that you can actually see a marine helmet over them so we should use tham as cover for which he insisted on 5+. Because of the language difficulty I didn't argue as we were smart enough to do this before we started.

My points are that if they are cover then the same save as a bush is ludicrous, shootoing through 30 feet of rock is obviously worth more.

I plan to stick to my rules otherwise there is nowhere to hide from shooty armies. I have to say that on the day my army is much more shooty than his was and so I beat him.

What do you think.

 

[kelvingreen]

Line of sight is on his side, but logic is on yours, so I don't know which way I'd call it. It does seem weird that a hill would provide the same cover as a bush, and it seems staggeringly unlikely that anyone but a sniper would be able to make an effective target of a bit of a head poking over the top; it's certainly not the kind of target someone running in with a rapid fire weapon is likely to hit.

I'd say go with your gut.

 

[pathwinder14]

Line of sight is on his side

Actually it's not. If you read the beginning of the shooting section of the BRB, LOS has to be drawn from your model to opponent model's torso. This way players are not penalized for awesome conversions and banners.

The Cabbage uses them correctly. They are level 2.

 

[The Wraithlord]

Line of sight is on his side

Actually it's not. If you read the beginning of the shooting section of the BRB, LOS has to be drawn from your model to opponent model's torso. This way players are not penalized for awesome conversions and anners.

The Cabbage uses them correctly. They are level 2.

Bingo. Adding a confirmation post to Path's.

Moved to 40K Rules Questions


The Wraithlord
Heretic High Council

 

[kelvingreen]

Actually it's not. If you read the beginning of the shooting section of the BRB, LOS has to be drawn from your model to opponent model's torso.

Well there you go. I'm more than happy to stand corrected on this one! What a very sensible rule that is. :lol:

 

[anathema]

They actually level 2 or 3 or LOS depending on how you play them. This is why it was raised in the GT FAQ thread as no-one has a conclusive answer for them and people play them in different ways. I prefer size 3 myself, they're a hill FFS.

 

[LongBeard]

Generally hills are played at level 2 although I know all these tank/skimmer armies like to play them at level 3! :wink:
As far as cover saves are concerned If your on the opposite brow of the hill from the shooter a 5+ cover save Is granted.

 

[Stella Cadente]

I still have no clue what all this level rubbish is about, to me a hill blocks line of site to infantry and anything on a vehicle except its turret, like it was back in 3rd edition, in the old Guard codex.

 

[don_mondo]

Page 25, Cover Summary Table, Parrtially behind hill crests, 5+

As to Hill size values, they don't 'officially' have one. First line of Area Terrain on page 17, "For most terrain features, what you see is what you get. Thus a hill or an enclosed building is as high as the model used to depict it." So a hill would block LOS based on it's actual physical dimensions.

With that said, it is a common convention among many players to assign a size value, usually 2 or 3, to hills just to avoid arguments about true LOS. I do it myself, even tho I know the rules say otherwise.

 

[Warboss Rustynail]

it should be level one but count as a 4+ cover at least if not a 3+.
how can you shoot thought rock unlest your a sniper the it should be a 1- to your cover throw

 

[dakari-mane]

don_mondo hit the nail on the head.

 

[pathwinder14]

I still have no clue what all this level rubbish is about...

Are you kidding with me or are you serious? I actually cannot tell. If you are serious then you will need to read the beginning of the BRB for size classification of models and terrain.

 

[mattjgilbert]

The BGB says that hills confer a 5+ cover save.

They also should not really be assigned a size at all. Only area terrain has a size, everything else is WYSIWYG. If you start considering hills as area terrain you get into all sorts of sillyness where you can't shoot across them or see more than 6" "into" them.

"Hills" is also a bit false. At the scale being played they are more like undulations in the ground. A "hill" would probably be larger than the table...

 

[cccp]

wysiwyg is probably the best way to deal with them. i think you have to be able to see the models torso for it to count as LOS, so there wouldnt be less problems then there are currently.

 

[don_mondo]

Line of sight is on his side

Actually it's not. If you read the beginning of the shooting section of the BRB, LOS has to be drawn from your model to opponent model's torso. This way players are not penalized for awesome conversions and banners.

Actually, it says "body", not torso, but the text goes on to explain about minor parts, ie toe, antenna, banner, blade, gun barrel. Seems to me the head of a model would count as part of his body.............

 

[mattjgilbert]

Our group take body to mean torso and/or head. Anything else is not valid.