[Jezlad]

You guys have got to read this.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1288563#post1288563

Some people eh?

 

[Wrath of Khaine]

I can see where both players are coming from, but I agree to use a winning army in a tournament. Why the hell spend money to lose? Maxed cannons is rather sick, but I've seen worse at tourneys. It seems the other chap has been womped by asscan armies, due to his crying-in-post. How does abusing children have anything to do with maxing out parts of a 40k army list? ROFL... Someone needs psychiatric help.

-Khaine-

Good show Jez.

 

[Warboss Dakka]

That is rather amusing, the idea that someone would go to a competition of any kind and not try their best to win is just silly. The idea that you can't have fun with a good list is also silly. It does seem like he was crying in his beer because he gets whooped far too often. Comparing "abusing" the game to child abuse is just retarded. tatical marines with las cannons should be charging throught the game eh? Because Blood Angels are brainless idiots who wouldn't even think of moving tactically while covered by heavy weapons fire. :roll:

 

[cccp]

some people just need a slap every now and then

 

[Jezlad]

You doing the GT this year cccp_one?

 

[The Wraithlord]

Personally, I am not a fan of 'win at all costs' list when in a friendly, home club type of environment as it can sometimes lead to arguements and such. However, that being said, I am all for that kind of list at a tournament. Tournament are ALL ABOUT winning and there is no other real point to go to one. After all, if you are just looking to have fun they do so at your local club and not pay for a ticket or worry about scores. In a tournament, any list goes and the point is winning, nothing else.

Not to say that you can't have fun either as you most likely will as long as you aren't a whining fop that can't take competition.

 

[Warboss Dakka]

I love facing win at all costs lists on my home turf, it allows me to be prepared for anything I might face at a tournament or other social 40k event where I'm playing against folks I don't know. Some would consider my Ork list to be unfluffy and "too competative" but then a lot of people don't consider the Orks to be competative at all. I always want to face the hardest, most challenging, most difficult opponent I can.

 

[Jeridian]

Tournament are ALL ABOUT winning and there is no other real point to go to one. After all, if you are just looking to have fun they do so at your local club and not pay for a ticket or worry about scores. In a tournament, any list goes and the point is winning, nothing else.

I agree, no-one should go to a tournament expecting to have fun...that'd be silly.

Just messing, have to agree about 'Tournament's' in general.
My only concern is that 40k, unlike Football, Chess, etc was never designed for competitive play in a 'high stakes' environment.

Simply put not all Codex's are equal- it's pretty obvious to spot which are and aren't. Unlike chess where both sides are identical, or football were both sides must rely on skill and fitness, etc.

In 40k, two equally skilled players can show up for a game- and dependent on army it is often very easy to predict who will win. Put that into a serious tournament situation and the outcome is obvious- people will choose the army that wins. And facing nothing but IW's, BA, AssCannon Spam- is boring, I know that's not a good enough excuse but it is for me.

I do go to GT's and have a lot of fun- but that is because a fair few people don't take the WAAC mentality. They try to win, they bring good lists- but they inherently handicap themselves by not taking the 'uber' lists like IW's, etc. Why do this if it's WAAC? Why not just collect IW's or Ass Spam?

Because there's more to it than WAAC for many. Winning a knife fight with a sword doesn't really prove your knife fighting abilities.

I'm not defending CrystalMeth, or blaming those with a WAAC attitude, but it should be pretty clear that 40k cannot be compared to chess or sports, or racing, unless everybody plays the 'uber' lists- which number only 2-3.

I'd like to be optimistic and say that GW has cottoned on to the fact 40k is becoming more and more a tournament thing (rather than a story-driven wargame), and are balancing new Codex's accordingly (Eldar for example). Though I will only be sure this is true when Chaos (IW's) and BA are re-done.

 

[Galahad]

"You;re not supposed to win, you;re supposed to have fun...so hurry up and lose so I can have fun!"

 

[the cabbage]

"A tournament is a competition involving a relatively large number of competitors, all participating in a single sport or game"

The above definition is from wikipedia the emphasis is mine. The guy was clearly a bampot. I am about to search warseer for his other posts to cheer myself up!

 

[Elric of Melnibone]

There is a large community at Warhammer.org that believes in not playing to win.

I saw one post where a WPS regular suggested to a tournament newbie to go to the 40k doubles GT, lose the first 2 games and then spend the rest of the time playing with the nice people lower down and having fun

:roll: :roll:

 

[torealis]

being a horrendously useless gamer, i adore battles in every chape or form. at some point a friend (a good gamer) and i plan to attend a 40k doubles tourney where i plan to wind him up at every opportunity by being spectacularly awful, through no fault of my own...

 

[uberschveinen]

There is a large community at Warhammer.org that believes in not playing to win.

I saw one post where a WPS regular suggested to a tournament newbie to go to the 40k doubles GT, lose the first 2 games and then spend the rest of the time playing with the nice people lower down and having fun

:roll: :roll:

Oh, yes. They certainly aren't allowed to have fun in an entirely mutually inclusive manner. How dare they try to enjoy the game and not the numbers on the paper at the end of it.

 

[Jeridian]

We've established this Uber- you don't fork out money, paint up your toy soldiers and go to a tournament to have fun, that would be silly- :lol:

I stand by my viewpoint that 40k tournaments could be fun even with everyone WAAC- if all the Codex's were on an equal footing. As it stands there are just 1 or 2 armies, with 1-2 builds that stand high above the others.

So if everyone goes to tournaments with the WAAC mentality- that is all we would see. Clearly a lot of people don't- are they all stupid for wanting to have fun, with an army they like, whilst still trying to win.

Or put another way, if winning is all that matters- only one guy will enjoy the event.

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

I think (from experience) the big decider is a persons attitude. I keep saying this again and again when this kind of topic comes up. I used to play with amazingly hardcore armies and try to win everything, had lots of fun in the process, ok you'd get a miss match where your opponent could do nothing but sorry it is a tourney, ppl play to win. The big thing is i never rubbed thier faces in it and never tried to push anything, still had fun, even when they got battered they were still jovial about it.

Now i make nice theme'd lists, like hordes of nids, lots of termies, all meched marines etc. Some of these list are brutal vs the right person, othertimes i get brutalised. Never sluk, never moan always enjoy myself and make sure my opponent gets to enjoy it to.

If someone wants to plya to win, fine don't be a dick about it. Just like ppl can be dicks when they believe they are superior as they "play for fun".

Ammount of times of heard those words from utter cock noses makes me weep, they try to hide thier failures as a decent person capable of having fun behind this wall of been of so fair in the game.

Sorry the army selectio n is irrelavant if your a nob.

 

[uberschveinen]

I'm not against people who want to enjoy the game their way, I'm just against those who won't let them, whether that be the person who must win, even if it means they spend hours a day practising, the person who seeks out new players so they don't even have to think to destroy them, the people who call a judge over for every second bloody movement, or the people who actively seek to make other people have a crap time of it. If it just so happens that these mentalities are more common in those favour an extremist style of play, then that's just the way it works.

 

[Jezlad]

Ironically i'm less competitive at GT's than I am at our gaming group.

I tend to let things be and try to be the sportsman at tournaments through fear of looking like a twat.

I am a sore loser but tend to mask my feelings better. Not sure if that'd be the case on table 1 game 6 though....

 

[MarzM]

Ok so like a few lads on this forum, im a regular GT player. This year i went with a different attitude from normal. In the years that i've been heading south of the border up until this year i've always taken silly/themed armies! This year i took what the guy in the warseer post would have described as a beardy/cheesy army. I took marine's with 6 assault cannons (2 tornadoes + 2 units of termies). Funnily enough, this was the only time i've never qualified for the final. Primarily i take assault cannons for weight of fire. My dice rolling with them is so bad, that in a game against Joe Sturge, i actually killed this Carnifex with storm bolters! My A/C's were soul destroyingly rubbish all weekend! In fact i think i only rendered 4 times in the 6 games i played!

So that will teach me! Im going back to heavily themed armies again. Next up is a mech tau army. Now i've heard it said that this army is hideously beardy too! But i've never seen it used, despite going to GT. Now i hate battle suits. Not the rules or the character, the actual models. So i'm having 1, the commander and 2 units of stealth suits. Im also having lots of piranhas and a unit of vespid coz they look cool. 1 hammerhead and a sky ray. This is a 1850pts list so bigger that GT, but its has a bit of most things.

A tournament is a competition, and most people go to try and win. I think people have to ask themselves, is the problem the list that your facing? Or the list your using? I believe that character and balance will beat beard 7 out of 10 times. So create a list that can adapt.

I got nailed in 2 games at GT (one by about 300pts and the other was a complete hammering)

The game against Joe Sturge (300pts game) was recon against Tyranids. So looking back what went wrong? Well i spread out too much for a start, but the real problem was that i didn't have enough movement. I was too static.

Next game i lost was against Dakari-mane, and i got a right hammering! I had no idea how bad Drop pods were coz nobody bothers with them where i play. His army lands, his librarian FoD a good deal of my army, I lose, badly.

So over the course of the weekend and upon reflection, i've stared a new army that help combat these problems. You live and learn. The problem wasn't whether i thought their armies were beardy or not, it was that in my attempt to make a hard ass army, it turned out not to be flexible enough to deal with other peoples armies.

So this army is flexable. It can move, there's a bit of everything and i think it will do well.

MarzM

 

[Jeridian]

Nice story, and I can agree with many of the sentiments (though in practice I'm too much of a sore loser to use them).

But I was under the impression that Tornados were pretty mobile.

Terminators move and shoot too.

Unless the rest was just 6xman las/plas your list has considerable mobility in it (I'm guessing Predators somewhere too).

 

[The Wraithlord]

I think (from experience) the big decider is a persons attitude. I keep saying this again and again when this kind of topic comes up. I used to play with amazingly hardcore armies and try to win everything, had lots of fun in the process, ok you'd get a miss match where your opponent could do nothing but sorry it is a tourney, ppl play to win. The big thing is i never rubbed thier faces in it and never tried to push anything, still had fun, even when they got battered they were still jovial about it.

Now i make nice theme'd lists, like hordes of nids, lots of termies, all meched marines etc. Some of these list are brutal vs the right person, othertimes i get brutalised. Never sluk, never moan always enjoy myself and make sure my opponent gets to enjoy it to.

If someone wants to plya to win, fine don't be a dick about it. Just like ppl can be dicks when they believe they are superior as they "play for fun".

Ammount of times of heard those words from utter cock noses makes me weep, they try to hide thier failures as a decent person capable of having fun behind this wall of been of so fair in the game.

Sorry the army selectio n is irrelavant if your a nob

That summed it up perfectly IMHO.

I believe that character and balance will beat beard 7 out of 10 times. So create a list that can adapt.

Couldn't agree more with this as well. I played Tau at the Windsor Conflict and I took a Hybrid list with both mechanized parts and static firebase units and did quite well with it I think. Even went up against a very Mech list and trounced it quite easily. Flexible lists combined with decent skill are much better than the one trick pony armies that many seem to be fond of currently.