Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay with the new rules if you have ASF and your initiative is higher than your enemy then you can re-roll to hit.
So say a unit of Sword Masters are charged by Clanrats.
The SM get to strike first due to their special rule even though they have GW, but since GW effectivly give you an initiative of 0 since normal units strike last with them, do you still get your re-rolls to hit?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Awesome, so then a horde of SM throw out 41 str 5, almost always re-roll to hit attacks that hit most things on 3+ before the opponent has a chance to do anything? ouch...
And then a Horde of spearmen fight in 5 ranks too? Front, 2 support, +1 for spears and a further +1 for martial training?
I dunno, they should have called the starter set Isle of Skaven Blood XD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
Awesome, so then a horde of SM throw out 41 str 5, almost always re-roll to hit attacks that hit most things on 3+ before the opponent has a chance to do anything? ouch...
And then a Horde of spearmen fight in 5 ranks too? Front, 2 support, +1 for spears and a further +1 for martial training?
I dunno, they should have called the starter set Isle of Skaven Blood XD
Note though, how squishy both are against shooting. Sure, not all armies can shoot, but it'd discourage them from playing that kind of list except against certain opponents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
Note though, how squishy both are against shooting. Sure, not all armies can shoot, but it'd discourage them from playing that kind of list except against certain opponents.

Masked Jackal is right on this, pretty much everyone knows the screw your face up potential of swordmasters, so if you field a unit like that you will want high magic res, and I cant remember if high elves have any banners to protect from shooting or not, but that would be a good investment. I for one play dark elves, and other T3 enemies make very crossbow friendly targets!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
There is a banner for magic resistance available to SM but it is often used for Phoenix Guard because of the combo with the 4+ ward save PG units already have. SM will need to be screened or quick into combat to reduce casualties on the way. The other thing is that, while re-rolling to hit and ASF is good, the step-up rule allows enemy units to strike back. SM might kill a lot of clanrats but the clanrats will kill a fair share of SM in return. One can afford to lose almost 3 clanrats per one swordmaster in close combat, so, in an even match of points, it is not like the SM unit will be absolutely assured of winning. As a rule of thumb, clanrats need to kill only one-third of the SM that the SM kill to win. However, with LD and, even with steadfast, the clanrats will lose on ACR and will have a decent probability of breaking and fleeing (even with steadfast for the firstcouple rounds of combat). so, if combat were the only issue, a unit of SM is worth more and more effective than a larger unit of clanrats of the same point total.

The real issue is that SMs die to shooting and magic about the same as clanrats with shields. So, any shooting or magic missiles makes clanrats a better buy in terms of the points in the unit that will be lost to shooting and magic before combat. That is why HE armies must have one lvl 4 mage (includig +1 to dispel) and one lvl 2 mage, cast drain magic, and exploit the crystal that takes one power dice from enemy and adds one power dice to the HE army. Lore of Life is the key lore for resurrecting expensive models lost to shooting and magic and buffing units so that they survive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
There is a banner for magic resistance available to SM but it is often used for Phoenix Guard because of the combo with the 4+ ward save PG units already have. SM will need to be screened or quick into combat to reduce casualties on the way. The other thing is that, while re-rolling to hit and ASF is good, the step-up rule allows enemy units to strike back. SM might kill a lot of clanrats but the clanrats will kill a fair share of SM in return. One can afford to lose almost 3 clanrats per one swordmaster in close combat, so, in an even match of points, it is not like the SM unit will be absolutely assured of winning. As a rule of thumb, clanrats need to kill only one-third of the SM that the SM kill to win. However, with LD and, even with steadfast, the clanrats will lose on ACR and will have a decent probability of breaking and fleeing (even with steadfast for the firstcouple rounds of combat). so, if combat were the only issue, a unit of SM is worth more and more effective than a larger unit of clanrats of the same point total.

The real issue is that SMs die to shooting and magic about the same as clanrats with shields. So, any shooting or magic missiles makes clanrats a better buy in terms of the points in the unit that will be lost to shooting and magic before combat. That is why HE armies must have one lvl 4 mage (includig +1 to dispel) and one lvl 2 mage, cast drain magic, and exploit the crystal that takes one power dice from enemy and adds one power dice to the HE army. Lore of Life is the key lore for resurrecting expensive models lost to shooting and magic and buffing units so that they survive.
Yeah as a Skaven player these guys did a number on my Hellpit, however my Grey Seer wrecked havoc on them with Vermontide and pestilent breah
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
easy 1 thuough high elf player goes t7 sword masters
Not if it's dispelled. Honestly, White Lions and Phoenix Guard are a much bigger worry for me. 3+ save against shooting? 4+ ward save? Those are hard to get through.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Not if it's dispelled. Honestly, White Lions and Phoenix Guard are a much bigger worry for me. 3+ save against shooting? 4+ ward save? Those are hard to get through.
You might be able to dispel throne of vines to knock the elves down to T5, but flesh to stone is not a RiP spell- it lasts through 2 combat phases until the start of the next HE magic phase- it gets a little annoying when someone like teclis casts it irrisistably: T5 elves for an entire game turn with absolutely nothing you can do about it :cray:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,247 Posts
You might be able to dispel throne of vines to knock the elves down to T5, but flesh to stone is not a RiP spell- it lasts through 2 combat phases until the start of the next HE magic phase- it gets a little annoying when someone like teclis casts it irrisistably: T5 elves for an entire game turn with absolutely nothing you can do about it :cray:
Yeah, nothing much I can do about that. :( I'll just have to hope my Sniper Sorc on a Pegasus can take him out quickly enough. I'll probably just roll all my dice for Fate of Bjuna or something and hope for a miscast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,864 Posts
I do not use SM. Point for point I much rather prefer the durability of PG led by Asuryan and the muscle power of WL led by Korhil. Lions get banner of arcane protection and Guard get banner of sorcery to improve my mages (Which just happens to be Teclis) magic phase. Scary combo and you can get a spearman hoard numbering 50 at least to act as a very large and scary distraction.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top