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Helsreach *spoilers*

6124 Views 50 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  bobss
I finished this book today, and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. Reading this so soon after Soul Hunter, I knew the standard would be high, and I wasn't disappointed.

The story begins shortly after Grimaldus has been promoted to Reclusiarch upon the death of his mentor, when he is ordered by High Marshal Helbrecht to command the small crusade that will remain on Armageddon while the rest of the BT force battles the orks in orbit. He feels this is a job not worthy of him, and this feeling is shared by the sword bretheren that accompany him.

One thing that has jumped out at me about the 2 ADB novels I have read is the depth of the characters he creates. He really brings his characters to life, making you like them or hate them, even if they are just incidental characters. Grimaldus is a true BT, full of zeal and hate for the enemies of the Imperium, but some of his awkward interactions with normal humans are quite amusing. But for me the best character in the book was Andrej, a Steel Legion storm trooper assigned command of a unit of militia who is determined to marry one of his squad mates, in his opinion the best looking woman on the planet. He really provides some moments of light relief, with one in particular making me laugh out loud

Despite his feelings for the mission he has been given, Grimaldus sets to it with a vengeance, and manages to keep part of a titan legion in the city despite their desire to leave. He further ruffles their Ad Mech feathers by blasphemously ordering the awakening of a legendary weapon from the first war without the proper rites and rituals.

He also comes into conflict the Salamanders when they finally arrive to assist, unable or unwilling to understand their desire to protect the civilian population when they could be hunting down and crushing the ork invaders.

The action is very well written, with everything from titan battles to down and dirty street fighting, but it isn't all about the action. This for me is a very character driven story, and I felt genuinly sad as they each met their deaths.

On the whole, Soul Hunter, and now Helsreach have me thinking that Abnett and McNeill are about to be overtaken in some style in the coming years by ADB.

Now, I'm off to buy Cadian Blood.:eek:k:
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I agree with Lord of the Night, upon his point: Some author`s are so inbuilt within their ''chosen Legion/Chapter'' and have added so much to their imagery, traditions and characters, that they should be always considered highly when this same Chapter or Legion are to be written of again. Swallow with the Blood Angels, McNeill the Iron Warriors et cetera...
Absolutely. Except for two things.

Firstly, the Heresy series is a chance for many of those same authors to do something else, which is what they want to do, and are encouraged by the editors.

Secondly, what about the people who don't much like that author's portrayal of Faction X in the past? Because their voice matters just as much, and in some cases, they're pretty significant in number.

You think Y should do Z. I think A should do B. That Guy thinks M should do N. In some of these cases, the numbers are a little out of whack. There's no consensus even on a small forum that "Joe Joeman must do this faction because of his work in the past" let alone across all the forums, or the fandom itself.

That's what I find interesting. When people are so utterly behind one author that they reject another out of hand. I've seen it happen when they say no one else would do the Night Lords in the Heresy as well as me, or the Blood Angels as well as Jim, or the Ultramarines as well as Graham. For every one of those opinions, you've got ones to counter it - it's just difficult to bring the fact across sometimes that people don't understand that their opinion is just their opinion. Yeah, you loved Series X. Not everyone did. Yeah, you hated Book Y. Not everyone did.

For every 1 instance of "Aaron shouldn't touch the Word Bearers", I've seen a hundred saying they're glad I'm doing it instead of anyone else. That opinion is no more objectively correct than anyone else's, even if it's one that's a boon to see. I figure it's all about perspective: like you said, some authors should be considered highly. That doesn't mean no one else can touch the faction, because that would be poisonous to the license, and make for some dull reading after a while.
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I agree with Lord of the Night, upon his point: Some author`s are so inbuilt within their ''chosen Legion/Chapter'' and have added so much to their imagery, traditions and characters, that they should be always considered highly when this same Chapter or Legion are to be written of again. Swallow with the Blood Angels, McNeill the Iron Warriors et cetera...
I said Reynolds did something wrong because he portrayed Kor Phaeron as being the typical, loyal Astartes not that your view point of the character in the short story was flawed.

Authors don't own Legions- I don't want to read from a single author's view point, they don't get to exclusively write about our Legions so I don't see why all the stories about them should be from that single person's imagination.

I'd like to Abnett or McNeill to do Blood Angels, Reynolds to do Dark Angels etc basically I want a pool of authors to get a proper immersion for the Legions.

Have you ever thought that mabe Anthony Reynolds didn't want to do a HH novel? It surely eats up a lot of time and he might have things to do he considers more important.
Ive got no problem with authors writing series about certain factions that already have a large backstory and culture defined by another author. If Graham McNeill wanted to write some Blood Angels i'd be fine with that, in fact i'd be happy since McNeill does Space Marines very very well. And if Anthony Reynolds wanted to write Ultramarines then i'd be fine with that because he did a Ultramarine's successor chapter very well and im sure he'd do the true Sons of Guilliman proud.

However if an author totally disregards another's work then I have a problem. If Dan Abnett decided to write a Word Bearers novel but totally disregarded Anthony Reynold's I would not be happy, if he took his work into account and wrote his own take on the Sons of Lorgar then as long as its good i'd be fine. Problem is sometimes authors get it wrong. Jim Swallow's Word Bearer Garand the Witch-Prince, a Tzeentch-worshipping Sorcerer is as far from the Word Bearer archetype laid down unto us in the Index Astartes and the Word Bearers series.

Certain authors lay down the groundwork on factions with their novels, elaborating their beliefs, culture, appearance and history. Graham McNeill has the Ultramarines, Jim Swallow has the Blood Angels, Anthony Reynolds has the Word Bearers, Nick Kyme has the Salamanders and ADB has the Night Lords. Now if only McNeill would give the Iron Warriors a full series I would be ecstatic.

To sum it up I feel that if an author has pioneered a faction, like McNeill has with the Ultramarines and ADB has with the Night Lords, they should always be considered to write the novels about them but if another wishes to take a shot at writing them then we should allow it and judge it on the merit of their work.
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It could be that some of the authors that haven't written any HH novels haven't done so due to poor "pitches" to BL, but out of fear for their physical well-being from a horde of angry fans that weren't happy about their particular take on their beloved Legion.
However if an author totally disregards another's work then I have a problem. If Dan Abnett decided to write a Word Bearers novel but totally disregarded Anthony Reynold's I would not be happy, if he took his work into account and wrote his own take on the Sons of Lorgar then as long as its good i'd be fine.
This is an interesting situation. Ultimately, no author is beholden to another: you don't need to base anything off someone else's ideas, especially if you think their ideas are awful. The exception here is the Horus Heresy series, where it's a linked series of novels planned together. But there's nothing to say Ultramarine Book X must reference Graham's work, or whatever.

Now, I'm of the mind that we should tie stuff together, and I respect the people I work with, which is why (for example) you see tips of the cowboy hat to Si Spurrier's work in the old Night Lords novel.

But it's not a perfect system. A lot of these novels are written by different people at the same time, who do not know each other, and who cannot (literally, it's just not realistically feasible) have contact with each other regarding every aspect of continuity.

I can give you an example off the bat: the Word Bearer trilogy that was just finished with Dark Creed mentions how all Terran-born Word Bearers were killed in the Heresy. Well, that doesn't happen in The First Heretic. In fact, it's unlikely to happen at all in the entire Horus Heresy. It just doesn't fit in with what's being told - at least not so far.

Now, some people will look at that and say The First Heretic (and any other author dealing with the Word Bearers) are wrong, because Dark Creed came out several months before the others. They will say it was bad research, or an intentional disregard, or whatever else. Others will say it retcons the Brotherhood concept, and deletes it.

The truth is, The First Heretic was half-finished by the time Dark Creed was released, and its entire storyline was already approved by editorial, approved by the Horus Heresy team, contracted, and well underway. It's not an intentional slight, nor is it bad research. But it is a contradiction. If you go on the popularity approach, The First Heretic and the Horus Heresy series will almost certainly be considered "more correct" because so many more people will read that series and see that perspective, and the HH series is overseen directly by BL's top authors and the intellectual property manager of Game Workshop.

Some people will say the Heresy series can ignore whatever it likes, and that only those novels have the authority to state what went on back then. Others will say, I'm sure, the Heresy series is purposefully out to retcon previous work.

Now, to 99.8% of readers, it won't matter at all. Even to those who have read both. But you watch - there'll always be a few that act like this is some grievous transgression against the natural order, and assign malicious ideas behind it all.

And that... That's interesting stuff, right there.
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Certain authors lay down the groundwork on factions with their novels, elaborating their beliefs, culture, appearance and history. Graham McNeill has the Ultramarines, Jim Swallow has the Blood Angels, Anthony Reynolds has the Word Bearers, Nick Kyme has the Salamanders and ADB has the Night Lords. Now if only McNeill would give the Iron Warriors a full series I would be ecstatic.
if mcneil did expand the iron warriors then i would be in on that, up until storm of iron i had no idea how the iron warriors operated and the way he wrote it allowed me an insight into a leigon that up until then had no real fiction written except fan fic wise.

i agree with dbc and seeing as the first heretic is HH whilst the anthony reynolds books are post heresy then its a different take, thats not to say the scurging of the terran born sons of lorgar wont happen just not yet although on a side note i was under the impression that none of the word bearers rebelled against their master, but i diverse.
different authors have differnt view points and its interesting to see different points of view of differing authors and thier take on the leigons or guard, sisterhood or arbites that they write about and thats what makes the whole idea interesting.
ben counter for existence may not have the same view of the ultramarines as graham mcneil, gav thorpe may not have the same view on the Grey Knights as Ben counter etc etc.
i think i'd get pretty bored with the novels (of which i now have an extensive collection) if they were all rigidly set and no artistic licence allowed.
besides no up until Horus Rising noone actually had bothered to let the WH40K fans know about the leigons before the heresy it was sort of these are the goodies these are the baddies.. deal with it.
thats what i love the series, although there are a couple of books that i have read and wont read again but that is my opinion, (read Horus rising and fulgrim about 8 times all told) it gives us the fans a chance to understand what went before, what went through the primarchs minds and the descisions they made and, agree with them or not, why they acted in the way they did.
it also gives us the fans a chance to really discover what the 40k world is built upon and they are doing that in whf with the time of legends and i'v read sigmar about five times and empire 3.
so what if author a doesn't follow author b there will always be somoene to moan about it....wouldn't be human if there wasn't.

sorry for rambling.
besides no up until Horus Rising noone actually had bothered to let the WH40K fans know about the leigons before the heresy it was sort of these are the goodies these are the baddies.. deal with it.
thats what i love the series, although there are a couple of books that i have read and wont read again but that is my opinion, (read Horus rising and fulgrim about 8 times all told) it gives us the fans a chance to understand what went before, what went through the primarchs minds and the descisions they made and, agree with them or not, why they acted in the way they did.
Except for the Index Astartes articles, and the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions as just 2 examples.

I'm disappointed that The First Heretic won't include or confirm a culling of Terran-born Word Bearers but at the same time I'm not going to let it ruin the book for me.

I would like to see someone else tackle a Blood Angels novel, James Swallows is all well and good but his writing style isn't a particular favourite of mine.
Except for the Index Astartes articles, and the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions as just 2 examples.

I'm disappointed that The First Heretic won't include or confirm a culling of Terran-born Word Bearers but at the same time I'm not going to let it ruin the book for me.

I would like to see someone else tackle a Blood Angels novel, James Swallows is all well and good but his writing style isn't a particular favourite of mine.
hmm i really should research before i post thanks again baron and i am not a fan of james swalloe i have difficulty following him sometimes although i did like the BA books.
i'd like to see anthony reynolds try a BA book but its good to see other legions getting a look in, i enjoyed sons of dorn immensly now if they would do a raven guard one or is there already a raven guard book out there?
I'm disappointed that The First Heretic won't include or confirm a culling of Terran-born Word Bearers but at the same time I'm not going to let it ruin the book for me.
It would probably be more of a surprise to many fans if it did include that stuff.

Every official source I've read (and asked) says the Word Bearers never needed to purge like the other Legions did. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of having a few people consider it wrong, despite the fact I stuck to the lore and asked GW sources, rather than a novel that's not even related to the Horus Heresy.
I'm disappointed because I liked the concept, but it's never been said anywhere else so with The First Heretic not including it I just won't consider it canonical (the cull not The First Heretic).

Now get back to work on it slave monkey and make a novel so good that the hyprocrites on Heresy decide that you've got the sole right to do Word Bearers in the future. :read:
It would probably be more of a surprise to many fans if it did include that stuff.

Every official source I've read (and asked) says the Word Bearers never needed to purge like the other Legions did. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of having a few people consider it wrong, despite the fact I stuck to the lore and asked GW sources, rather than a novel that's not even related to the Horus Heresy.
I strongly agree with Baron Spikey on both of his posts, and to intertwine that of what you, yourself mentioned and I hope I didn`t seem to offensive with my rebuke to the former:); Though usually an author`s interpretation of a chosen Legion or Chapter is one of benefit, fleshing out the sparse background on them, there are going to be times such an abbreviation by a certain author of a Chapter of Astartes, is disliked by many. I think as a suitable example, James Swallow`s Blood Angels, especially for the first books, were, as a majority disliked. I know of people who disliked your ''own'' as it were, Night Lords, with others enjoying, if not worshipping this.

I think it`s a tough call, as to what is ''correct'' and what is not. I have much admiration for the Gaunt`s Ghosts series, and I`m very intrigued as to what Graham, Yourself and Kyme, but to name a few, can bring to the Sabbat Worlds. I loathed Graham`s Dark Eldar, but adored his Ultramarines. I found Saul Tarvitz`s interpretation and heroic demise (In some weird anomaly) more interesting by Ben Counter in Galaxy in Flames, than McNeill`s in Fulgrim. Penning stories based upon already founded settings, characters and themes will always draw disdain and adoration by the fans of such. Take the example of when the James Bond series was to be continued by a different author to the original, how much controversy and pre-emptive hate did that cause? Or even, to a totally unconnected example, the new Doctor Who? As an author I suppose you have to accept that people will always sneer if not challenge your style, and take on varying things, but you always attempt to swing the majority in your favour.

As for The First Heretic, then against my earlier adamancy (Because I really don`t want to be inevitably swept into the black and white, hate/love that I was for Soul Hunter, even though I fundamentally found it interesting, with many enjoyable aspects) I am certainly intrigued as to what the novel will share on perhaps the fundamental causes of the Heresy. Not including the cleansing of Terran-born Word Bearers may challenge that by Reynolds, but surely the bedrock of the Horus Heresy series is to divulge into newer secrets, pacts and treachery? After all, that’s what draws me into 30k above all other 40k fiction - how I am aware of the overall plot and its ramifications on the future millenia, but not so sure on the more minute but still poignant details which led to this.

But overall, and in general, just to say that I am not phobic of change, or differing opinions and perspectives, I anticipate The First Heretic eagerly (though not as much as the Sabbat World Anthology :victory:) more than Prospero Burns infact, and I hope it not only does justice to the typical zealously of the Word Bearers (unlike the characterisation in Battle for the Abyss) but also that it leans away from that of Reynolds, and offers up plenty of revelations, contradictory to what we are already aware of, essentially for the intrigue, shock and so forth:)

Bobss.
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