[darkreever]

Right, so inspired by, and I honestly can't believe I am typing this, what was said by Stella Cadente in another thread. In my most recent set of chaos lists, I took up a challenge of making a list with the battleforce (amongst other things); now contained within the battleforce is a unit of possessed.

Hell I got 'em, might as well use them in the list. So now I come to the tactics section of Heresy for the opinions, idea's, and experience of others.


I want to use a unit of possessed in my current chaos lists, what setup(s) should I use? How many should I use in the squad? Should I give them a champion? Which icon, if any, is a good choice for them? Rhino or no rhino?


Lets go with a unit of them used in a 1k and 2k list, because there may be a better setup for them in larger games compared to a setup in smaller ones. Right, so anyone got anything for this one or am I about to get a slew of bad shit instead?

 

[Svartmetall]

I figure Khorne is a good icon to give to Possessed. It gives them 3 Str 5 attacks each, that have the chance to be Rending, or ignore armour saves, or even be Str 6 if you roll Furious Charge; that's a pretty nasty close-combat unit right there. To my mind the trick with Possessed is not to focus so much on the random aspect of them - which people seem to dwell on to the point that it overshadows everything else about Possessed - but to work with the basic stats and strengths of them and treat the random roll stuff on top as a bonus, rather than the defining characteristic of the unit. Are they the last word in min-maxable uberness? Probably not, but if you just flat out like the idea of them and want to have some in your army they're nowhere near as bad as some people would have you believe. Purely IMHO, of course.

Plus, Possessed are a converter's dream since you can just go batshit crazy with them :biggrin:

 

[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

Everyone seems to focus so much on meching up, and the fact that possessed are in an army list where you need to use a heavy slot to get them in an assault vehicle, the lack grenades and the fact that they lack ranged weapons seems to get people hung up on them not being able to make up their points in kills. The thing is, I've found a much better use for them that most people probably don't even consider due to the mech-heavy nature of the game right now. Basically how this happened is I ended up with a great deal on my friend's chaos army that he was selling, but it included 30 Possessed, so I just had to find a use for them.

If you're familiar with MMOs, I generally use possessed as "tanks" in those terms, to surprising effect.

Basically, depending on who I know I'll be fighting, I'll usually either dedicate my Possessed to Nurgle or Tzeentch, depending on whether I think the higher toughness or the inv save will be more important to keeping them alive. Usually I go Nurgle. Then, I put them in units of either 15 to 20 and run them on foot toward the enemy.

Now, I know this seems like a horrible idea, and if they were alone it would be. But I have them charging up with my Noise Marines, Defilers and Obliterators sitting in back shooting things (I particularly like Noise Marines cuz they're always a nice surprise for people when they get into CC and find out they're good at that too.) Anyway, the huge unit of foot-slogging Possessed are always a top priority for people to shoot down. Stat-wise they're way too powerful to ignore, being on foot in a large group makes them too tempting of a target for the high-powered weapons for most people to pass up, and the high toughness and inv save means they can survive enough of those shots to absorb that fire for a while. Meanwhile, my long range shooty guys behind them are doing their job and slaughtering guys from a distance.

Usually this plays out one of two ways. Either they use up most of their shooting killing the Possessed before they can get to them, and by the time they've done so my shooty guys have taken out most of the big threats and just need to mop up. Otherwise, they realize the Possessed are there as a distraction, ignore them, shoot my shooty guys who are in cover and far away, and end up having to deal with Possessed in close combat, which is what they're built for. Either way, I end up coming out ahead.

EDIT: As for Champions, I only take them for Possessed if I need something to summon a Greater Daemon with, otherwise I don't waste the points.

 

[5tonsledge]

(I particularly like Noise Marines cuz they're always a nice surprise for people when they get into CC and find out they're good at that too.) .

ill agree with you Noise Marines are incredible in close combat because they strike first. not to menchin freakin doom sirens are amazing i curently field 6 doom sirens and 6 blastmasters.

well reaver i like you so im going to give you the best advice i can give you.
Possesed, they use to be rediculously awesome in the 3rd editon codex. oh god running a squad of 10 in a rhino all with daemonic fire, just the thought made me jiz a little(incase you didnt know Daemonic fire is a template weapon S4 ap3). they ran for 22 points a model and were aloud one daemonic gift each. i want to write down their stat line use to be but thats illegal for reasons. but lets Just say they were the same as now but they had S5 instead of 4. and they had bolt pistols.
currently in the new codex they are 23 points a model and cant take daemonic upgrades considering the fact that GW abolished them like retards and ruined chaos awesomeness forever. they dont have bolt pistols so no maximising their shoot and assualt, and now you have to role for a ability and they are decent abilities just not something i would take up an elite slot for at 23 points a model. theres no point in taking an aspiring champion in the new codex because the only thing you are paying the 10 points for is +1 attack.
in the old codex you could give them amory skills that were awesome along with their already 1 daemon power like daemonic fire. so it sadens me how awefull the unit is now.

but if you want to use them because they look cool or something go ahead they are more of a fun unit anyhow because of the game of chance you play to get all power weapons. i would put them in a rhino simply because incase you do get all power weapons you can have protection from getting obliterated because lwts face it a 20 man squad of power weapons running at you across the board is a huge target for an enemy and they are going to get shot to death.

i personally use the possesed bits from the battleforce set as power weapons on champions or just to look cool, another thing i dont understand is they give you a pair of wings in the squad but you can not upgrade them with wings so its just for looks. ofcourse you can put the wings on your chaos lord models which is cool.

if you want a reliable squad i would go chosen with plasma guns or meltas depending what you like better take a squad of 5 with 5 special weapons in a rhino and move disembark and rapid fire at something like a terminator squad. thats my advice good luck on your final decision and if your making chaos i would consider looking at noise marines because a squad of 5 with a champion , a power sword , a doom siren and a blastmaster in a rhino is 220 points. you just sit back and when something gets to close you lash the squad with your daemon prince disembark from your rhino move up fire the doom siren assualt with I5 with 4 attacks with your champion with power weapon you will whipe a squad of 10 bezerkers before they couyld attack back. ive done it multiple times Doom sire S5 ap3 template. lots of rape, good luck with the list.

also i know you dont like reading long messages that dont have paragraphs so i split them up in rows. I suck at english. graduated high school but only got Cs and Ds in english, so i dont have the best spelling or punctuation. which i realize is important in modern society so when i go to college ill make sure i take a english class. i was more along the lines of just a big dumb jock. although i did pass all the other classes with As and Bs. but when it comes to 40k and chaos i know my shit.

 

[darkreever]

Um..unless my codex is printed wrong possessed are still S5; its why Svartmetall mentioned them having the potential to be S6 if they get furious charge.

I've been playing this game for a while now, I have the previous codex so I know all about what many of the choices were able to do.

Finally, yeah I'm asking for help with a unit (or units) of possessed. I don't need to see shit where people are telling me to nix them and use unit X, Y, or Z instead because its better. I already made it clear by putting this thread up that I want to use possessed so there is no reason to waste my time or yours trying to convince me not to take them. This last part goes for everyone who reads this and/or decides to give me some help and post. Its not aimed at any one member and its part of the basis of why I made this thread.

 

[5tonsledge]

no thats cool i said you could use them if you wanted i personally just think they are a waste of an elite slot because of the cost and affectiveness ratio. i agree they look cool and i have put them in friendly games because me and buddies always get good laughs rolling the daemonkin chart. its always great rolling a 6 and getting power weapons or furious charge. i didnt notice that they were S5 still shows you how often i use them. i just wish they had daemon skills you could pick instead of special abilities you have to roll for. i like knowing that a unit that i have put in my list can server the job that i have assigned them to in my list. but yea put them in there, the models look good and S5 isnt bad jsut wish they had some flexibility as far as wargear.

 

[The Son of Horus]

Daemonic fire is a template weapon S4 ap3).

Daemonic fire was a bolt pistol. S4, AP5, Assault 1. It was a 5-point upgrade for a Lord or Daemon Prince, and 3 for everyone else. It was really only good if you had dual lightning claws, since those were the days when bolt pistols weren't standard-issue things that you got no matter what else you were carrying.

Possessed squads bought a single gift, which every squad member had to take at the points cost listed. It wasn't something where you got to give a handful of them daemonic talons (which conferred rending attacks) and a handful of them daemonic fire so the squad actually had a shooting attack.


Anyway, nostalgia aside ('cause the 3rd/4th edition Codex, depending on what you want to call it-- the current one -was- written for 5th, after all, despite coming out at the tail end of 4th), Possessed should still be usable. They're a bit random, but none of the random effects are bad except for the Scout move one.

I'd point to Possessed as a way to include a powerful shock squad in an army which maybe isn't doing the whole "The gods are all one big dysfunctional family" thing that GW has been plugging for Chaos Space Marines in the last few years, and instead goes with the established background that armies are lead by champions of a specific god, and they don't typically intermingle unless there's a -very- powerful champion of Chaos Undivided at their head. For example, you wouldn't bring Berserkers in a Death Guard army ('cause it's not a Death Guard army at that point, no matter what anyone says-- it's an army which includes Death Guard and World Eaters.) But maybe you want a squad with a bit more kick in close combat than Plague Marines, who have excellent staying power but aren't able to dish it out any better than any other Chaos Space Marine squad. Possessed now enter the picture, as they can fill that gap that you otherwise couldn't without violating the background of the army.

Anyway, there's no reason Possessed couldn't be used as a first-wave shock squad. However you choose to deliver them (via Rhino or Land Raider, most likely, although rolling Daemonic Flight is excellent too), they're perfectly capable of tearing open a gap in the enemy battle line, which your Chaos Space Marines can then exploit. From there, it's just a question of spreading out and sweeping away the big threats, and then you can consolidate your position on turn 5 and 6 and claim objectives as necessary. In all likelihood, the possessed won't survive if you use them that way, but they WILL get the job done.

The fact that people rag on Possessed all the time also gives them an advantage that isn't even mechanical. People will ignore them in favor of more perceived threats because they think, "Oh, Possessed suck compared to x y and z that are also in this army." That gives them the bizarre potential to cause an inordinate amount of damage because your opponent simply doesn't know how to deal with them, or doesn't view them as a threat.

 

[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

The fact that people rag on Possessed all the time also gives them an advantage that isn't even mechanical. People will ignore them in favor of more perceived threats because they think, "Oh, Possessed suck compared to x y and z that are also in this army." That gives them the bizarre potential to cause an inordinate amount of damage because your opponent simply doesn't know how to deal with them, or doesn't view them as a threat.

That alone has given me a pretty nice advantage when my friends and I play with people that I don't see very often. A lot of times, if someone hasn't seen my army in action I'll foot-slog them an give them the Khorne mark instead of my usual Nurgle, since they're likely to be ignored and won't need the protection as much.

Sadly, my closer friends have learned not to underestimate my Possessed and they now serve as hardy bullet magnets for them. Of course, that alone makes them useful enough as far as I'm concerned. They really started to get scared of them when I tried them out for the first time against my Eldar friend, rolled Furious Charge, and they killed his Avatar in the first round of close combat while making their Inv save against its attacks. Now they only see combat if my friends have bad luck with their dice... but at least the rest of my army gets to do its job unmolested. :biggrin:

 

[maddermax]

10 strong, in a rhino, with the Mark of Khorne (for maximum carnage) or Mark of Slannesh (hitting first against marines with S5 is pretty nice), No champion (bit pricey for just +1 attack), unless you want a 40 point target for a Greater Daemon possession. MoN and MoT cost too much, and you really want better assault capabilities with them anyway.

If they scout, they can be charging the enemy first turn with a little luck (12" scout in rhino, 2" disembark, 6" move 6" assault). otherwise you'll get a useful combat ability, and they'll be a decent assault force. If you can, keep another rhino near them for when theirs gets destroyed - the less they walk, the more mischief they can get up to. If you manage to get a 4 or 6, they'll rip through most units pretty quickly.

Alternatively: 5 strong, rhino, no options/upgrades. Pray for a good roll, and you'll have a decent assault force. Without a decent roll, they can still annoy an opponent, and you have an extra rhino around.

 

[5tonsledge]

Daemonic fire was a bolt pistol. S4, AP5, Assault 1. It was a 5-point upgrade for a Lord or Daemon Prince, and 3 for everyone else. It was really only good if you had dual lightning claws, since those were the days when bolt pistols weren't standard-issue things that you got no matter what else you were carrying.
.

ah thank you for saying something its been a while since i had opened the 3rd edition codex. youre right the Daemoinc Fire isnt a template but the codex says range 12 S4 AP6 assualt 2. i got the Daemonic Flame mixed up with the Ether lance Which is Template S4 AP3 assualt 1. but yea thanks for posting so i would check. but yea the reason i think possesed arent that great is because they are 23 points for basically marines with fearless S5 and a 5+ invul which sounds cool until you look at wargear and realize their is none. i dont like units that i cant rely on sucessfully getting a job i want them for done. as far as a distraction unit yea i could see posessed being something being ignored across a battle field, that would work against a lot of Loyalist marine players because they tend to worry about ther lascannons hitting armor then their troops getting killed by a squad of posessed. but this is all my oppinion ofcourse so its not fact i just tend to go with reliability.

but yes i like your tactic with posessed the best so reaver if you wanted a good way to use posessed i would go with them as a surprise factor. or wait i think i know you could use posessed. for my current list i take a squad of chosen or two with plasmas to kill off terminators deepstriking too close to my noise marines rhinos. i dont care if they pop the armor but i dont want them tying my marines in combat. so i keep them boxed in with my rhinos and if termis come i jump out and kill. i could see posessed serving a similar purpose but the only way i could see them killing terminators is if you rolled a 6 on the daemonkin list. no armor save 3 attacks on the charge S5 power weapons, ah terminators would cry. but other than that just moving the rhino around in cover and coming up on the enemy wouldnt be a bad idea.

oh by the way son of horus i dont think that posessed get daemonic flight in this edition which is why i tink its weird the squad box comes with a set of wings. huh get back to me on that ill look through my book for details.

 

[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

If they scout, they can be charging the enemy first turn with a little luck (12" scout in rhino, 2" disembark, 6" move 6" assault)

I didn't think you could assault on the turn you got out of a rhino? I thought that was a special Blood Angels thing, and other flavors of Space Marine, including Chaos, couldn't do it?

oh by the way son of horus i dont think that posessed get daemonic flight in this edition which is why i tink its weird the squad box comes with a set of wings. huh get back to me on that ill look through my book for details.

That's correct, they don't. The wings just look really really cool. And provide an expensive but badass way to make raptors with wing packs instead of jetpacks, or to give a custom-made Chaos Lord or Sorcerer wings.

 

[maddermax]

I didn't think you could assault on the turn you got out of a rhino? I thought that was a special Blood Angels thing, and other flavors of Space Marine, including Chaos, couldn't do it?

As long as the rhino hasn't moved, you're allowed to get out and do everything as normal. If the rhino moves at all before they disembark, whether it's just pivoting on the spot or going 12", then you can't assault when you get out.

So, with a scouting rhino, you can drive right up to within 12" of their deployment zone, and with the little extra movement you get from disembarking, you can get a first turn charge going. It's not always recommended though, as it tends to leave your Possessed out in front of the rest, but it's better them getting shot than all your transports I suppose.

 

[Malgron]

I like them as bodyguard units.

Kharn with possessed to get a save when he hits his own unit.

Tzeentch lord + deathscreamer and possessed in a rhino could help 1K sons from getting bogged in assault.

I would like to see an army with 2 DP, 3 Possessed squads, minimum troops choice, a horde of lesser daemons, obliterators for tank popping, and a GD. A chaos army like that would make me smile. Big brass balls required.

 

[darkreever]

I would like to see an army with 2 DP, 3 Possessed squads, minimum troops choice, a horde of lesser daemons, obliterators for tank popping, and a GD. A chaos army like that would make me smile. Big brass balls required.

Challenge list idea accepted. Expect to see something like that up in the list section today or tomorrow.

So from looking over what we have right now the idea's are:

-Large squad size with mark of Nurgle or Tzeentch, not mounted; champion only for a GD
-5-10 mounted as a shock unit (either in a rhino or land raider), icon variable
-Large unit with Khorne, idea for use against someone who has extremely little experience with possessed
-10 strong, Khorne or Slaanesh, rhino, champion variable depending on GD or no GD
-5 strong, no icon, rhino, relying on good daemonkin roll
-5-10 held back as a support unit in a rhino
-Bodyguards to a character

Wow, seven fairly varying general idea's; looking good so far.

 

[5tonsledge]

good luck should be a fun list atleast and as long as you lash you can get them into combat quicker. ive done something similar with dreads by lashing squads into duel close combat weaopon dreads. i like lesser daemons too they assualt on deepstrike not really good against anything with a 3+ save though. good luck reaver get back to us after you use it.

 

[darkreever]

You know, when I started making the list I thought about one or two lash princes. But then I decided that since this is little more than a fun list, and I am doing two gods, that it would adhere to forces of enemy gods not willingly fighting alongside each other. (As I was also planning on using Khorne, and Khorne and Slaanesh are enemies so that became a no go.)


Got that list up faster than I expected, and you can find that here.

 

[Herr-Flick]

Hmmm how about taking a 15+ squad giving them tzeench and go elete hunting with them?
The 3 S5 (or s6) attacks on charge will be enough to force wounds even on termies and with the 4++ save they stand a fair chance against powerweapons and fists.
That is even excluding the possible benefit from the demonkin rolls of witch the "worst" is scout witch in essence makes them effective one turn faster than normal.

And if your worried about them not having grenades you can counter that by taking 1 or 2 lash princes.

Edit: Spelling

 

[shaantitus]

Generally the concensus is that they are an effective assault unit. Generally in a transport with the mok for gp or tzeentch/nurgle for general additional resilience. Although khorne in a rhino makes the most sense.

 

[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

Generally the concensus is that they are an effective assault unit. Generally in a transport with the mok for gp or tzeentch/nurgle for general additional resilience. Although khorne in a rhino makes the most sense.

I think it all depends on what else he's using.

I know I've been advocating the tzeentch/nurgle charge up thing a lot, but that's because the rest of my army is fairly long ranged. If you're going for more of a khorne army, or some other more or less focus on close combat, then you're definitely better off putting them in a rhino, and probably with mark of khorne (although I could see nurgle being useful for this method too--anything with both strength and toughness 5 that can be taken in a unit is going to give an enemy trouble.)

 

[Serpion5]

I`m going to say it, possessed are fantastic.

I run a unit of ten. No icon. No Rhino.

I shit you not, it works every time. Even unarmed, they are a lethal unit. If your opponent ignores them, he will pay for it. Pick the biggest badass foe your opponent has on the table and charge. Hive Tyrant? Dead! Death Company? Dead! (of course this may vary pending the power you roll, but generally you get a combat bonus so you should be okay.)

And if your opponent decides to cream them with the best firepower he has, that`s less fire heading toward more solid units.

Seriously, if more csm players took possessed, there would be a lot less bitching about this codex imo.