Help with new army
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2,169 Posts
Right now Dark Eldar is a pretty crappy army. They aren't very competitive and are the models are pretty old. The new Orc codex is being released soon along with a new set of wicked models. Personally I would wait till the new Orc's comeout and pick those up.
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1,092 Posts
Also, they're next for redux after orks, so not too long to wait.
I know somone who had an awesome DE army. He won to everyone. I had a very nasty loss to him... I could probably beat it now :so_happy:
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1,636 Posts
I like Orcs because they are very characterful figs, especially with all the new goodies coming out.
As a modern day weapon...think of the Orcs as a 12ga Shotgun.
Dark Eldar...don't be fooled. Dark Eldar CAN be a truly deadly force. They just require finesse to properly use...and aren't very forgiving if not handled skillfully.
As a modern day weapon...think of the Dark Eldar as a silenced .22 caliber pistol. Might seem like much, but it does happen to be the weapon of choice for skilled assassins back in the day.
As a modern day weapon...think of the Orcs as a 12ga Shotgun.
Dark Eldar...don't be fooled. Dark Eldar CAN be a truly deadly force. They just require finesse to properly use...and aren't very forgiving if not handled skillfully.
As a modern day weapon...think of the Dark Eldar as a silenced .22 caliber pistol. Might seem like much, but it does happen to be the weapon of choice for skilled assassins back in the day.
Orks
Pros:
-can move fast
-great close combat troop choice
-new codex coming out, can already pre-order it, some of the new models look pretty sweet
-can have some pretty good close combat HQ units
-power of waaaagh!
-can have huge squads
-tanks bustas, a squad of man w/ tank busta bombs
(6+1D6x2)
Cons:
-bad armour
-bad ballistic skill
-guns not all that great
-cost way too much but rumoured that in new codex their taking them down a few points
-no heavily armoured vehicles unless you choose a looted vehicle
-open topped vehicles
Dark Eldar
Pros:
-great close combat army although, i don't think it would really fare all that well if you choose it to be a shooting army, i.e. make it a wych army (4+ invulnerable in close combat, combat drugs special rules apply, enemy must have their WS if they have a unmodified S of 6 or less)
-Choice of mandrakes, probably best choice of men that can move up i've seen
-can have a whole army deep strike if you put them in tanks, yes their tanks can deep strike, so you can have your wyches in the transport and have them deep strike and stay in the tanks antil the next turn
-ravagour(i know i spelled it wrong) three dark lances!
-all vehicles fast and skimmers
-can have one 2+ invulnerable in army! but once you've failed it once it goes away
-the best initiative army i've seen, basic troops initiative 5 up to the wych lords initiative of 8:shok:
-must be the attacking army(special rule)
Cons:
-pretty much everybody has toughness three, not hard to instant kill
-tanks not very good armor
-troops don't have very good armor 5 and 6+
-no really extraordinary guy that you can make that can take on much
-everybody even leader has S3
-open-topped vehicles
-having a close combat army restricts(makes it so you can't use) a couple units
I hope this helped in your choice
k:
Pros:
-can move fast
-great close combat troop choice
-new codex coming out, can already pre-order it, some of the new models look pretty sweet
-can have some pretty good close combat HQ units
-power of waaaagh!
-can have huge squads
-tanks bustas, a squad of man w/ tank busta bombs
(6+1D6x2)
Cons:
-bad armour
-bad ballistic skill
-guns not all that great
-cost way too much but rumoured that in new codex their taking them down a few points
-no heavily armoured vehicles unless you choose a looted vehicle
-open topped vehicles
Dark Eldar
Pros:
-great close combat army although, i don't think it would really fare all that well if you choose it to be a shooting army, i.e. make it a wych army (4+ invulnerable in close combat, combat drugs special rules apply, enemy must have their WS if they have a unmodified S of 6 or less)
-Choice of mandrakes, probably best choice of men that can move up i've seen
-can have a whole army deep strike if you put them in tanks, yes their tanks can deep strike, so you can have your wyches in the transport and have them deep strike and stay in the tanks antil the next turn
-ravagour(i know i spelled it wrong) three dark lances!
-all vehicles fast and skimmers
-can have one 2+ invulnerable in army! but once you've failed it once it goes away
-the best initiative army i've seen, basic troops initiative 5 up to the wych lords initiative of 8:shok:
-must be the attacking army(special rule)
Cons:
-pretty much everybody has toughness three, not hard to instant kill
-tanks not very good armor
-troops don't have very good armor 5 and 6+
-no really extraordinary guy that you can make that can take on much
-everybody even leader has S3
-open-topped vehicles
-having a close combat army restricts(makes it so you can't use) a couple units
I hope this helped in your choice
k:
Joined
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800 Posts
chill out..... is my next short answer, nah only joking he asked for opinions i gave him mine, was a bit to straight forward yes i admit sorry. but then look at my next post "its all about prefferance and opinions really" which means if you like the dark elder then go for it... i dont, so i wouldnt go for it but then again peaple might not like my armies so he knows he shoudnt listen to opinions and only the facts.
sorry for been to straight forward for you with my opinions then...
funny i see this actualy because early on today i got beaten by a dark elder army and was the first time for that, i played my death guard and the kid owned me with some kool raider things and a team of some kick ass close combat blade specialist (not sure on the unit names) but i guess i learned my lesson haha
Joined
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800 Posts
thats how someone beat me today haha.Orks
Pros:
-can move fast
-great close combat troop choice
-new codex coming out, can already pre-order it, some of the new models look pretty sweet
-can have some pretty good close combat HQ units
-power of waaaagh!
-can have huge squads
-tanks bustas, a squad of man w/ tank busta bombs
(6+1D6x2)
Cons:
-bad armour
-bad ballistic skill
-guns not all that great
-cost way too much but rumoured that in new codex their taking them down a few points
-no heavily armoured vehicles unless you choose a looted vehicle
-open topped vehicles
Dark Eldar
Pros:
-great close combat army although, i don't think it would really fare all that well if you choose it to be a shooting army, i.e. make it a wych army (4+ invulnerable in close combat, combat drugs special rules apply, enemy must have their WS if they have a unmodified S of 6 or less)
-Choice of mandrakes, probably best choice of men that can move up i've seen
-can have a whole army deep strike if you put them in tanks, yes their tanks can deep strike, so you can have your wyches in the transport and have them deep strike and stay in the tanks antil the next turn
[B]-ravagour[/B](i know i spelled it wrong) three dark lances!
-all vehicles fast and skimmers
-can have one 2+ invulnerable in army! but once you've failed it once it goes away
-the best initiative army i've seen, basic troops initiative 5 up to the wych lords initiative of 8:shok:
-must be the attacking army(special rule)
Cons:
-pretty much everybody has toughness three, not hard to instant kill
-tanks not very good armor
-troops don't have very good armor 5 and 6+
-no really extraordinary guy that you can make that can take on much
-everybody even leader has S3
-open-topped vehicles
-having a close combat army restricts(makes it so you can't use) a couple units
I hope this helped in your choice
was my first game in about a year or so though... but like i said, any army can be the best if you no how to use them...
ive seen to many people start an army like eldar, darl eldar, tau and nids then give up because they think marines are easier to use... its about learning your army and what its capable of really
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8,137 Posts
Understatement of the year imho. Dark Eldar in the hands of someone who has learned how to deal with the strengths/weaknesses of the army are absolutely vicious. Hands down the hardest army for me to beat no matter what I use (Tau or Chaos). Yes they have glaring weaknesses but they also have some extremely nasty benefits. Just don't expect to put them on the table and start owning with them right off the bad. They certainly have a steep learning curve.
I take no offence if you said that to me, but i fully agree with the fact that it's not the army that counts that much it's man that's commanding it, some armies are more adaptable and easier to use though (my opinion). I believe that you can pick any army no matter the pros and cons are and it should be even but the longer the general has the army the better he should be.
Thank you all for your input, it is a hard decision. I also just found out that the CSM codex was revised? I have been on deployment, so I have been kind of out of touch with things. I guess I will have to re-learn my army when I get back, lol
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1,056 Posts
I like Dark Eldar
Combat drugs are always a fun thing to use even if there's a risk with them
Not to mention they have High initiatives
and some of their weapons are quite good aswell.
Combat drugs are always a fun thing to use even if there's a risk with them
Not to mention they have High initiatives
and some of their weapons are quite good aswell.
In two tournaments, and in several "friendly" games my Dark Eldar are undefeated.
A quote from a opponent at a tournament...
"Dark Eldar are a great army to play...if you don't want to make any friends."
Even their codex warns however they are a glass knife. They can win massively and make your opponent stare at the table in shock. Or they can fail miserably however it's a how you play it army. A general tactic idea and relying on dice rolls will not do it.
They are an army for someone who turn 1 can see turn 6. It's chess not checkers. So I'll give you a rundown from a sure enough solid Dark Eldar player...
Pro's
- More heavy weapons than you can shake a stick at, and for cheap. Probably one of the nastiest shooty armies out there. Stick them in 4+ cover and let them thump. They make mincemeat out of Land Raiders, and other heavy tanks.
- Cheap points wise Dark Eldar border on being a Horde army.
- One of the best IC's in the game. 2+ inv save, can be made S6 with 6 attacks on the charge, re-rolling fails to hit, at I7 or 8 (archon or Archite). I've yet to have him fail a 2+ armor save. Typically he kills enough in base to base contact that their counter attack is worthless. He laughs in the face of other IC's killing them before they draw their weapon, and eats terminators like candy. Not only that you can assault a minimum of 26" + D6" show me any other unit that hits both that hard, and that fast and I'll eat my words.
- You have the option of a Shooty army, or a CC army. The CC army requires more planning but really drives your opponents mad when used properly.
- Wyches are one of the few units that think Genestealers are cute and fluffy. 4+ inv wych dodge laughs at rending, or power weapons. They both reduce the enemy's number of attacks, and WS. Making it hard to hit back much at all.
- Speed. Raiders move up to 24" per turn which is fast enough to stay behind cover until they're ready to strike. Deepstriking them is suicide.
- The only army that can bring their reserves on through a portal. In reserves missions while you rolling turn 2 to bring on 60% of your army piecemeal the entire Dark Eldar force will come through their portals.
- Standard power weapon wounds anything on a 4+ and glances anything on a 6+.
- Haemonculi...variable AP flamer? Yes please.
- Can achieve victory in a manner as to make your opponent throw his army at the wall. I've killed Nidzilla in 3 turns, Chaos in 4, and phased out Necrons in 4.
- Only Army that can take prisoners, and get extra VP's for them.
Cons
- I won't say weak armor because it has the speed to keep it alive
- S3 can be a weakness with so many MEQ armies. However Dark Eldar make up for it with firepower, speed, and tenacity.
- Low Leadership is my #1 peeve. Expect to see your warriors running of the table on a semi-regular basis.
- Lack of S9+ weapons can make things such as a monolith a pain to kill. However their standard heavy weapon reduces Land Raider armor to 12.
- Requires a nearly flawless game and are completely unforgiving.
- I also won't say low armor saves. You pay 15pts for a 3+ save space marine. You pay 8pts for a Dark Eldar warrior. Low armor saves are a given their numbers make up for it.
- Some units while neat aren't very worthwhile in a competitive game. Namely Mandrakes, Grotesque's, and Scourges. Some say the Talos but I've had good success with mine.
- Lack of resistance to psychic powers.
- Typically hard to find, and some army variants IE Wych cults are expensive since they require a mass of metal models.
All that said the new Ork codex looks awesome and will be a ton of fun. I didn't start with Dark Eldar I started with Tyranids. Starting with them would probably be a uphill battle without another good DE player to help you.
A quote from a opponent at a tournament...
"Dark Eldar are a great army to play...if you don't want to make any friends."
Even their codex warns however they are a glass knife. They can win massively and make your opponent stare at the table in shock. Or they can fail miserably however it's a how you play it army. A general tactic idea and relying on dice rolls will not do it.
They are an army for someone who turn 1 can see turn 6. It's chess not checkers. So I'll give you a rundown from a sure enough solid Dark Eldar player...
Pro's
- More heavy weapons than you can shake a stick at, and for cheap. Probably one of the nastiest shooty armies out there. Stick them in 4+ cover and let them thump. They make mincemeat out of Land Raiders, and other heavy tanks.
- Cheap points wise Dark Eldar border on being a Horde army.
- One of the best IC's in the game. 2+ inv save, can be made S6 with 6 attacks on the charge, re-rolling fails to hit, at I7 or 8 (archon or Archite). I've yet to have him fail a 2+ armor save. Typically he kills enough in base to base contact that their counter attack is worthless. He laughs in the face of other IC's killing them before they draw their weapon, and eats terminators like candy. Not only that you can assault a minimum of 26" + D6" show me any other unit that hits both that hard, and that fast and I'll eat my words.
- You have the option of a Shooty army, or a CC army. The CC army requires more planning but really drives your opponents mad when used properly.
- Wyches are one of the few units that think Genestealers are cute and fluffy. 4+ inv wych dodge laughs at rending, or power weapons. They both reduce the enemy's number of attacks, and WS. Making it hard to hit back much at all.
- Speed. Raiders move up to 24" per turn which is fast enough to stay behind cover until they're ready to strike. Deepstriking them is suicide.
- The only army that can bring their reserves on through a portal. In reserves missions while you rolling turn 2 to bring on 60% of your army piecemeal the entire Dark Eldar force will come through their portals.
- Standard power weapon wounds anything on a 4+ and glances anything on a 6+.
- Haemonculi...variable AP flamer? Yes please.
- Can achieve victory in a manner as to make your opponent throw his army at the wall. I've killed Nidzilla in 3 turns, Chaos in 4, and phased out Necrons in 4.
- Only Army that can take prisoners, and get extra VP's for them.
Cons
- I won't say weak armor because it has the speed to keep it alive
- S3 can be a weakness with so many MEQ armies. However Dark Eldar make up for it with firepower, speed, and tenacity.
- Low Leadership is my #1 peeve. Expect to see your warriors running of the table on a semi-regular basis.
- Lack of S9+ weapons can make things such as a monolith a pain to kill. However their standard heavy weapon reduces Land Raider armor to 12.
- Requires a nearly flawless game and are completely unforgiving.
- I also won't say low armor saves. You pay 15pts for a 3+ save space marine. You pay 8pts for a Dark Eldar warrior. Low armor saves are a given their numbers make up for it.
- Some units while neat aren't very worthwhile in a competitive game. Namely Mandrakes, Grotesque's, and Scourges. Some say the Talos but I've had good success with mine.
- Lack of resistance to psychic powers.
- Typically hard to find, and some army variants IE Wych cults are expensive since they require a mass of metal models.
All that said the new Ork codex looks awesome and will be a ton of fun. I didn't start with Dark Eldar I started with Tyranids. Starting with them would probably be a uphill battle without another good DE player to help you.
>> Dude, takes more than that to offend me man. Expanding on answers does help new peeps. And I dont hold grudges long. Well, only till I get yer eyes!!
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114 Posts
Right now... orks, when new dex comes... DE.
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