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Discussion Starter #1
I have an Ultramarines army and I play my friend regularly and he has Ad Mech. He has beaten me 4 times on the trot and and one occasion has even tabled me. I played him last week with an army consisting of:

HQ
Calgar - 200
Lieutenant - 74

Troop
Tactical - 178
Intercessor - 90
Intercessor - 90

Elite
Terminator - 235
Venerable - 197

Fast Attack
Inceptor - 180

Spearhead

HQ
Chronus - 35

Hvy
Hellblaster - 165
Predator - 192
Landraider - 314

I think my problem is that I keep trying to take him on in a shoot out and I’m constantly coming up second best due to his invuln saves.

If any one can help me with any tactics or recommend any models that will do the business I would be very grateful because I would just love to wipe that smug grin off of his face
 

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Can you throw up what force your opponents usually uses, it would help in giving you advice. Space marines are good at shooting but lack numbers in a toe to toe shoot out.

I like twin auto cannon dreadnought, very good range and hit hard with plenty of dice, good force multipliers also twin kheres contemptors.

Also what tactics are you using? Deep striking shooty termies in the rear as well drop pods
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I can’t remember exactly what he has but it was 2 battalions with Cawl, Tech Priest Dominus as his 2 main HQs. Troops was 6 5?man skitari squads. 2 squads of Robots (4 total). 2 Dunecrawlers with neutron lasers that just killed me. 10 electro priests , 3 breachers and 5 Sicarian Infiltrators. Think that’s it.

At present I’m just kitting my army out with as many lascannons as possible to take out his heavy armour whilst using characters to buff the roles. I find that unless I destroy either one Dunecrawler or 1 squad of robots during turn 1 if I go first I really struggle. Especially with is invulnerable saves. Last time he deployed 1 Dunecrawler and One Squad of robots plus two squads of on either flank. I deployed my Pedator (with Cronus) my venerable, one squad of Primaris and a lieutenant to go up that flank. The hung in till about turn three but I couldn’t get the rolls to beat the Dunecrawler. I did manage to take out the robots though. A Also deep strike the Terminators on the right but the skitari kept them wrapped up for a couple of turns.

On the Left Flank is where it went horribly wrong. My hellblasters didn’t make a dent during turn one which I put down to bad throws (5 hits on super charge followed by 4 ones and a two). They then got massacred by the robots (using the strategm) that lets them fire twice. This cause me to hide Calgar and the other squad of Primaris behind a building only to fall into a trap of his deep striking Sicarian Infiltrators. The Landraider got taken out in turn 1 by three neutron laser hits.

That was all she wrote.
 

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As a 40k dabbler I can't offer much sage and true wisdom, but if the raider is not lasting long as a bullet magnet maybe ditch it for another Las predator or a couple of razor backs with twin assault cannons to saturate the dune crawler. What are your terminators armed with? Maybe increase the squad size and pack in 2 cyclone missile launchers. Maybe try fit in some sternguard for some decent infantry fire power, or even speeders with H.Bs and typhoon launchers, the more saves he has to make the more he's gonna fail. Also, take a good look at the redemptor dreadnought when armed with a macro plasma incinerator

The dune crawler packs an awful punch for the price, i dont envy fighting 2. If placing a crawler on each flank is his usual trick, try playing a refused flank and place most of your units on one side of the board deep strike the termies and maybe drop pod the tac squad/stern guard and meteoric decent the inceptors too, hopefully you can isolate and cut up one part of his army leaving the other side with little to do. As I said I'm a dabbler only, but hopefully I've got some sense for you to get some ideas from
 

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I can’t remember exactly what he has but it was 2 battalions with Cawl, Tech Priest Dominus as his 2 main HQs.
Keep in mind if he has no other HQ's than his list may very well not be legal. Each battalion must have two HQ's.



Troops was 6 5?man skitari squads. 2 squads of Robots (4 total). 2 Dunecrawlers with neutron lasers that just killed me. 10 electro priests , 3 breachers and 5 Sicarian Infiltrators. Think that’s it.
That would pretty much have to be it, beyond needing two more HQ's this is around 1900 points worth of stuff without any upgrades (beyond the neutron lasers.)



At present I’m just kitting my army out with as many lascannons as possible to take out his heavy armour whilst using characters to buff the roles. I find that unless I destroy either one Dunecrawler or 1 squad of robots during turn 1 if I go first I really struggle.
Sounds like you need to focus on overwhelming firepower and controlling fire lanes.


That being said, hellblasters, super charged plasma, melta weapons, and anything that can do a flat 2-3 damage are best.



Especially with is invulnerable saves.
Barring any canticles that improve invulnerable saves, his army is only rocking ++5 and ++6 saves. Now if he is using the Lucius forgeworld dogma than he gets to treat -1 ap weapons as 0 ap, but that has no bearing on invulnerable saves.



Last time he deployed 1 Dunecrawler and One Squad of robots plus two squads of on either flank.
That actually sounds like really bad deployment for the dunecrawlers, since they would get to reroll saves of 1 when close together. Also by doing that he cannot guarantee that both groups will be able to shoot at stuff, unless you both play on a fairly open board.



I deployed my Pedator (with Cronus)
This part of your list is actually illegal. Chronus's vehicle needs to be purchased separate to that predator you've taken. So that detachment would need another heavy support choice if he's going in the predator.



The Landraider got taken out in turn 1 by three neutron laser hits.
Were the neutron lasers the only thing that damaged your land raider? Because if yes those were some really lucky damage roles; near perfect in fact. To burn through all 16 wounds.


Could you flesh out your list a bit more, that way we can get an idea of what your loadouts are. By the way are you using the codex or the index?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks guys. Terminators are armed with thunder hammers and shields. Going to purchase a redemptor soon. Hopefully it will help. Like the idea of the flanking strategy.

Can’t remember exactly what he had as his other HQs. Pretty sure it was to more Dominus. Old models though. Pretty sure that was his entire list.

Apologies for the ignorance but what do you mean by firing lanes?

Didn’t know that about Chronus. What i’ll Do is slot him into HQ (in the Predator) and just run a Battalion.

Yeah he was as lucky as f#%k. Got three hits and wounds in, I failed all my saves and he then rolled 2 6s and a 4. The audacity!!

Thanks again
 

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Thanks guys. Terminators are armed with thunder hammers and shields.
Ok, but what about the rest of the list? What does the tactical squad have? The predator? The dreadnought?



Going to purchase a redemptor soon.
Keep in mind that it appears you are not using the codex for this, so its going to be harder for us to help you what with the codex being available. (For example I'm assuming that the list you put up here is the normal lascannon/heavy bolter land raider. That model is around 360 points.)



Can’t remember exactly what he had as his other HQs. Pretty sure it was to more Dominus. Old models though. Pretty sure that was his entire list.
I'm guessing probably two tech priests, his list is nearly at 1900 points and two of those would run under 100 points.



Apologies for the ignorance but what do you mean by firing lanes?
Think of them along the lines of a hallway, you may know there is something else nearby but you cant see it in order to aim/get an accurate shot. (Line of sight blocking terrain.)


Yeah he was as lucky as f#%k. Got three hits and wounds in, I failed all my saves and he then rolled 2 6s and a 4. The audacity!!
Lucky as fuck is definitely one way of putting it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tactical Squad has a sergeant with grab pistol/chainsword, multi Melta and a plasma gun. Predator is fully equipped with lascannons. Dreadnaught has a twin lascannon and fist/hvy flamer. Thinking of equipping the Assault Cannonin future to give myself more shots and make him use more saves

I am using the codex on my iPad to put my lists together but taking the index as a reference guide for the game. Landraider that i’m Using is the crusade with twin hurricane bolters, twin assault cannon and multi Melta.

He is the jammiest fucker in the world!!
 

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Perhaps give this a thought:


Retains both detachments, and makes it a bit tougher for the crusader to miss.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Darkweaver

One thing i’ve been thinking of is instead of taking him on with shootin I can take him on the fight phase. I’ve nearly got this list ready:

HQ
Guilliman - 400
Chronus / Landraider Crusader - Hurricane bolters / assault cannon / multi Melta - 370
Tigurius - 130

Troop
Scout - Bolters - 55
Scout - 55
Scout - 55

Flier
Stormraven - twin lascannon / twin heavy Bolter / 2 x Hurricane Bolters / stormstrike missiles - : - 300

Elite

Ironclad Dreadnaught - Chainfist / combat weapon / melta gun / stormbolter - 145
Assault Terminators / Hammers / Shields- 235
Centurions - Siege Drills / 4 Flamers / 2 Meltas Assault Launchers - 222

Total - 2001

I using this list during the last battle my plan would be to pack the Terminators into a Landraider and ride it up to the Dunecrawler and Robots with Gulliman in support. Hopefully to some damage to the Dunecrawler with the Crusader and RG. Next turn get the Terminators out to charge the Dunecrawler and both the Landraider (to soak up the OW) and RG charge the Robots)

Similar Tactic with the Stormraven. Fly it out with the Dread and the centurions. Right up to the Dunecrawler firing everything it’s got. Next turn get Tigurius, Dread and Centurions. Have Tigurius cast null zone to take out the ++ saves and then Might of Heroes on the Dread. If this works out i’ll use the vehicles(if they survive, need to withstand at least two rounds of shooting) scouts and RG to take out the troops and HQs.

Was also thinking of shaving some points and taking a Techmarine to look after the Landraider.
 

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One thing i’ve been thinking of is instead of taking him on with shootin I can take him on the fight phase. I’ve nearly got this list ready:
It honestly looks like a very jumped and disorganized list to be honest. Not a terrible amount of synergy, more a reliance on splitting your forces up and hoping they can do enough damage.

Guilliman - 400
In this list Guilliman is potentially easy pickings. Unless I'm mistaken, he can't be embarked in a transport and there are no troops near him to provide him some cover from incoming fire. (Yeah you have the land raider as some protection, but that forces you to slow it down to keep up with him and potentially soak up even more firepower.

Chronus / Landraider Crusader - Hurricane bolters / assault cannon / multi Melta - 370
Keep in mind that as per chapter approved Chronus is 5 points more expensive than listed in the codex.

Tigurius - 130
I get that Tiggy here provides you the null zone bubble, but you can do that for fewer points with a normal or primaris librarian.

Troop
Scout - Bolters - 55
Scout - 55
Scout - 55
These guys feel more like a command point tax and are more a waste than anything. That means your effectively going into 2k games with an 1850 list.

Flier
Stormraven - twin lascannon / twin heavy Bolter / 2 x Hurricane Bolters / stormstrike missiles - : - 300
Beyond an expensive delivery system, again I'm not seeing loads of synergy here.

Elite
Ironclad Dreadnaught - Chainfist / combat weapon / melta gun / stormbolter - 145
Low cost and a decent close combat output, I'd actually suggest running him alongside Guilliman.

Assault Terminators / Hammers / Shields- 235
I recommend keeping two with lightning claws.

I'd recommend giving the following some thought:
 

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I hardly check this board anymore, but am gonna make it a point to start checking regularly again
after reading Darkreaver's commentary here.
Nice.
 
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