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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there!

Next weekend we're having a tournament at our local store.

I currently have a chaos and eldar armies, but i'm more to go with chaos since I have more experience playing with them.

So my list will be the following:
HQ
Khorne chaos lord with sigil of curruption, ichor blood and axe of blind fury - 140pts

Troops
10 CSM with icon of vengeance (AP with power weapon) on rhino with dirge caster and havoc laucher - 250 pts
9 CSM with icon of vengeance (AP with CCW) on rhino with dirge caster - 208pts
10 cultists, Heavy stubber, AP with shotgun - 57pts

Heavy support
2 oblits - 140pts
forgefiend with hades autocannon - 175pts
5 havocs, 3 lascannons, 1 bolter, AP wit bolt pistol and CCW - 168pts

Aegis defense line with quad gun - 100pts

Total - 1238pts


Tactic: lord goes with the 9 CSM squad on rhino; havocs behind aegis line with AP firing the quad gun; cultists only for holding "my" objective

Normally I will face IG, necrons, maybe some SM and orks. AP of the CSM have regullar power weapons in order to not have initiative 1. I don't like the fact that my CSM squads don't have plasmas or simillar, but don't have many points - still I can put one plasma...

I thought of my havocs with heavy bolters in order to decimate hordes, but to confess I'm somewhat afraid of tanks and stuffs that may pop out, and without the lascannons I think I will have trouble to destroy them.

Any way I fell that the list needs some trimming, so help required

Thanks
 

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JUGGERNUT
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2,558 Posts
Hi there!

Next weekend we're having a tournament at our local store.

I currently have a chaos and eldar armies, but i'm more to go with chaos since I have more experience playing with them.

So my list will be the following:
HQ
Khorne chaos lord with sigil of curruption, ichor blood and axe of blind fury - 140pts

Troops
10 CSM with icon of vengeance (AP with power weapon) on rhino with dirge caster and havoc laucher - 250 pts
9 CSM with icon of vengeance (AP with CCW) on rhino with dirge caster - 208pts
10 cultists, Heavy stubber, AP with shotgun - 57pts

Heavy support
2 oblits - 140pts
forgefiend with hades autocannon - 175pts
5 havocs, 3 lascannons, 1 bolter, AP wit bolt pistol and CCW - 168pts

Aegis defense line with quad gun - 100pts

Total - 1238pts


Tactic: lord goes with the 9 CSM squad on rhino; havocs behind aegis line with AP firing the quad gun; cultists only for holding "my" objective

Normally I will face IG, necrons, maybe some SM and orks. AP of the CSM have regullar power weapons in order to not have initiative 1. I don't like the fact that my CSM squads don't have plasmas or simillar, but don't have many points - still I can put one plasma...

I thought of my havocs with heavy bolters in order to decimate hordes, but to confess I'm somewhat afraid of tanks and stuffs that may pop out, and without the lascannons I think I will have trouble to destroy them.

Any way I fell that the list needs some trimming, so help required

Thanks
If I were to revise your list for myself, here's the list I would use. I believe it offers a little more versatility, makes better use of your troops, and protects your back field a little better. Only difference in the model count is 10 extra Cultists.

HQ:

Chaos Lord: Mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Melta bombs, Axe of Blind Fury
I'd prefer the Melta bombs to take out heavy armor. He's already dealing enough hits (sometimes too many) in close combat. That extra piddly hit from Ichor Blood isn't going to do a whole lot for you, but a Land Raider can't be touched by his S7 attacks. Roll a 7 on 2d6 and you get a pen (due to armor bane). Roll a 4 and you blow it up (due to AP1). Seriously though, he can wipe out an entire squad in 1 turn. This is great, but it could leave you vulnerable to shooting on the next turn. You might have your lord fight a challenge you're guaranteed to win and then wipe the rest of the unit the next turn. Don't roll a 1. :)

TROOPS:

Chaos Space Marines x9: Mark of Khorne, 2x Meltaguns, Icon of Wrath, exchange Bolters for Close Combat Weapons, Rhino with Dirge Caster
Don't need the Icon of Vengeance since the Lord makes them Fearless. Also, since your Lord wants to charge ASAP, you won't be using your Bolters anyway. Might as well have each model get an extra attack from the extra close combat weapons and +2 attacks from Rage on the charge. Meltaguns will pose a threat to armor of any type if you're close enough, and they're assault so they don't stop you from charging. You might get lucky enough to blow up a transport and then assault the occupants. The potential wounds on the embarked unit from an explosion could tip combat in your favor. Icon of Wrath makes sure your charge doesn't fall short and you can make the best use of your rapetastic warlord. It also gives you Furious Charge, making your warlord's attacks S8 and your marines S5 on the charge. Helps in a Chaos vs. Loyalist marine slugfest, where S4 vs T4 and a 3+ save makes the fight take a bit longer than it would without this buff on the charge. Obviously, have the unbuffed champ eat the challenge. Your warlord will reap many skulls.

Chaos Space Marines x10: Lightning Claw on Champ, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino with Dirge Caster
I'd again prefer not having the Icon of Vengeance, in this case exchanging for 2 Plasma Guns. Keep this group on a midfield objective or in cover, or get within rapid fire range and unleash hell. Losing Fearless isn't a huge deal in exchange for being able to do some more damage. Lightning Claw is for killing Space Marine/other characters in a challenge. I prefer winning my challenges, when possible. A marine on marine challenge can go on for quite a while with crappy rolling from both sides, denying your Champ the opportunity to cut down multiple models from the enemy unit.

Cultists x20: No upgrades
The heavy stubber and shotgun aren't worth much at all. Expanding the unit to 20 models will go a long way in minimizing their likelihood of running off the board. You're going to ground behind an ADL For a 2+ cover save, but if somebody accurately pops a single cover-ignoring template they're probably boned. They can hold your home objective while also bubble wrapping your Forgefiend or Havocs.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Forgefiend: Hades Autocannons

Obliterators x2

Havocs x5: 4x Lascannons
Might as well have 4 of them.

Aegis Defense Line: Quad Gun

Hope you find those changes useful or give you ideas about what you might want to change. Ultimately, run the list however you want, I just think it's better to maximize your damage output and have a few more bodies protecting your home base. If you're worried about hordes, you can Deep Strike your Obliterators, hope for an accurate drop, and unleash Heavy Flamers on they ass. Or, you can keep them back and alternate between Assault Cannons and Plasma Cannons to wittle down hordes over time as they run up to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nice suggestions

Some are very pertinent, however I have some limitations.

In the tournament no proxies allowed, and I don't have meltaguns and regular CSM with mark of Khorne.

I have however Beserkers... can make some conversions to get melta, but don't know if I can get them in time.

4 lascannons are ok, and I got them

AP with claw also ok and have it.

Thanks
 

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JUGGERNUT
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I only ever use autopistols/ccw with Cultists. I guess if you're getting to rapid-fire the autoguns at a weak target, say with a low toughness and shitty armor save, then it could be worth it. But in my lists, their purpose is either to tarpit or hold objectives while providing ablative wounds for characters camping behind an ADL. Those autogun points could be put into a few more models for the unit, or a meltagun or something for a marine.

Well, not having the meltaguns isn't a huge deal. Use those points as you see fit. You could add another marine to the havoc squad to stand in front of the lascannons. You could give the Cultists 2 flamers and still have points left over. It's situational, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Still in need

So reformulating the list:

HQ
Khorne Lord, Axe of Blind Fury, Melta Bombs, Sigil of Corruption - 140pts

Troops
10 CSM (AP with pistol and CCW) on Rhino with dirge caster - 238pts
9 Khorne Beserkers, Icon of Wrath (AP with pistol and CCW) on Rhino with dirge caster - 260pts
10 cultists (AP with pistol and CCW) - 55pts

Heavy support
2 oblits - 140pts
Forgefiend - 175pts
Havocs (4 lascannons; AP with pistol and CCW) - 188pts

Aegis defense line - 100pts

Total - 1296pts

I currently have an extra of 46pts (limit 1250)....

Any ideas on how I can do that? Ore any changes that turn this into something better?

Thanks
 

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The list is good, imo. Maybe the forgefiend is a bit meh. You could swap him for 2x3 bikers with melta/plasma...more tactical flexibility.
My two cents.
GLORY TO CHAOS!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Final list

I had some options that I didn't wanted togged on army builder, that's why i had more than 1250pts

here goes:

1 Chaos Lord (HQ) @ 140 Pts
Fearless; Champion of Chaos; Independent Character; Rage; Counter-attack;
Sigil of Corruption; Axe of Blind Fury; Melta Bombs; Power Armour; Mark of
Khorne; Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Warlord

4 Havocs (Heavy Support) @ 188 Pts
Power Armour; CCW (x4); Bolt Pistol (x4); Lascannon (x4); Frag Grenades;
Krak Grenades

1 Aspiring Champion @ [48] Pts
(character); Champion of Chaos; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; CCW;
Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Vengeance

9 Chaos Space Marines (Troops) @ 213 Pts
Power Armour; CCW (x9); Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x9); Frag Grenades; Krak
Grenades

1 Aspiring Champion @ [38] Pts
(character); Champion of Chaos; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power
Weapon (x1); Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

1 Chaos Rhino @ [40] Pts
Vehicle (Tank, Transport); Capacity: 10; Fire Points: 2; Access
Points: 3; Repair; #Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; Dirge Caster;
Combi-Bolter

9 Chaos Cultists (Troops) @ 55 Pts
Improvised Armour; CCW; Autopistol (x8); Heavy Stubber

1 Cultist Champion @ [14] Pts
Champion of Chaos; CCW; Autopistol

1 Forgefiend (Heavy Support) @ 175 Pts
Vehicle (Walker); Daemon; Daemonforge; Fleet; It Will Not Die; #Daemonic
Possession; Hades Autocannon (x2)

2 Obliterators (Heavy Support) @ 140 Pts
Bulky; Daemon; Deep Strike; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purposeful;
Fleshmetal; Power Fist

1 Aegis Defence Line @ 100 Pts
(BRB, pg. 114); Battlefield Debris (Defence Lines); Quad-gun
Gun Emplacement (each weapon) [0]

8 Khorne Berzerkers (Troops) @ 236 Pts
Counter-attack; Rage; Fearless; Furious Charge; Power Armour; Mark of
Khorne; CCW; Bolt Pistol (x8); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Wrath

1 Berzerker Champion @ [29] Pts
(character); Champion of Chaos; Mark of Khorne; Power Armour; Bolt
Pistol; CCW; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

1 Chaos Rhino @ [40] Pts
Vehicle (Tank, Transport); Capacity: 10; Fire Points: 2; Access
Points: 3; Repair; #Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; Dirge Caster

Models in Army: 41


Total Army Cost: 1247

I think it will be competitive and will make for it

Thanks guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
list version 2

I only ever use autopistols/ccw with Cultists. I guess if you're getting to rapid-fire the autoguns at a weak target, say with a low toughness and shitty armor save, then it could be worth it. But in my lists, their purpose is either to tarpit or hold objectives while providing ablative wounds for characters camping behind an ADL. Those autogun points could be put into a few more models for the unit, or a meltagun or something for a marine.

Well, not having the meltaguns isn't a huge deal. Use those points as you see fit. You could add another marine to the havoc squad to stand in front of the lascannons. You could give the Cultists 2 flamers and still have points left over. It's situational, though.
The list is good, imo. Maybe the forgefiend is a bit meh. You could swap him for 2x3 bikers with melta/plasma...more tactical flexibility.
My two cents.
GLORY TO CHAOS!
Making a new version of the list, out forgefien and aegis, and in with helldrake and sorcerer


Chaos Lord (HQ) 1 6/5 5/4 4/6 4 3 5 3/4 10 3+/4++ 140
Fearless; Champion of Chaos; Independent
Character; Rage; Counter-attack; Melta Bombs;
Sigil of Corruption; Axe of Blind Fury; Power
Armour; Mark of Khorne; Bolt Pistol; Frag
Grenades; Krak Grenades; Warlord

Sorcerer (HQ) 1 5 4 4 4 2 4 2/3 10 3+/5++ 75
Champion of Chaos; Independent Character; Psyker
(Mastery Level 1); Aura of Dark Glory; Power
Armour; Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Frag Grenades;
Krak Grenades

Chaos Cultists (Troops) 10 3 3 3 3 1 3 1/2 7 6+ 56
Improvised Armour; CCW; Autopistol (x10)
Cultist Champion 1 3 3 3 3 1 3 2/3 8 6+ [16]
Champion of Chaos; CCW; Autopistol; Shotgun

Chaos Space Marines (Troops) 9 4 4 4 4 1 4 1/2* 8 3+ 253
Fearless; Power Armour; CCW (x9); Bolt Pistol
(x9); Bolter (x8); Plasma Gun; Frag Grenades;
Krak Grenades; Icon of Vengeance
Aspiring Champion 1 4 4 4 4 1 4 2/3 9 3+ [38]
(character); Champion of Chaos; Power Armour;
Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon (x1); Bolter; Frag
Grenades; Krak Grenades
Chaos Rhino 1 BS: 4 Front: 11 Side: 11 Rear: 10 HP: 3 [40]
Vehicle (Tank, Transport); Capacity: 10; Fire
Points: 2; Access Points: 3; Repair;
#Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; Dirge Caster;
Combi-Bolter

Khorne Berzerkers (Troops) 8 5 4 4 4 1 4 1/2 8 3+ 236
Counter-attack; Rage; Fearless; Furious Charge;
Power Armour; Mark of Khorne; CCW; Bolt Pistol
(x8); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Wrath
Berzerker Champion 1 5 4 4 4 1 4 2/3 9 3+ [29]
(character); Champion of Chaos; Mark of Khorne;
Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; CCW; Frag Grenades;
Krak Grenades
Chaos Rhino 1 BS: 4 Front: 11 Side: 11 Rear: 10 HP: 3 [40]
Vehicle (Tank, Transport); Capacity: 10; Fire
Points: 2; Access Points: 3; Repair;
#Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; Dirge Caster

Obliterator (Heavy Support) 1 4 4 4/8 4 2 4/1 2 8 2+/5++ 70
Bulky; Daemon; Deep Strike; Obliterator Weapons;
Slow and Purposeful; Fleshmetal; Power Fist

Obliterator (Heavy Support) 1 4 4 4/8 4 2 4/1 2 8 2+/5++ 70
Bulky; Daemon; Deep Strike; Obliterator Weapons;
Slow and Purposeful; Fleshmetal; Power Fist

Havocs (Heavy Support) 4 4 4 4 4 1 4 1/2 8 3+ 180
Fearless; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol (x4);
Lascannon (x4); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
Aspiring Champion 1 4 4 4 4 1 4 2/3 9 3+ [48]
(character); Champion of Chaos; Power Armour;
Bolt Pistol; CCW; Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak
Grenades; Icon of Vengeance

Heldrake (Fast Attack) 1 BS: 3 Front: 12 Side: 12 Rear: 10 HP: 3 170
Vehicle (Flyer, Hover); Daemon; Daemonforge; It
Will Not Die; Meteoric Descent; #Daemonic
Possession; Baleflamer


Total Army Cost: 1250


Models in Army: 42

what do you think?
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Looks good. The only suggestion I have is to swap the shotgun from the cultist champ to melta bombs for the berzerker champ. You can actually wreck vehicles with your lord alone on a charge, but the zerker champ can do it too if something happens to your lord or he splits off from the unit. Backed up with Krak grenades by the rest of the unit, if it's under AV13 they have a chance. I think most vehicles are at most AV12 on their ass armor. That shotgun might kill a guardsman or something, so I think the trade-off is more than worth it.
 
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