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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
WHAT THE WARP?!

Exhibit A.

"Sergeant Harker is a giant of a man, even by Catachan standards, his large frame covered with slabs of muscle and sinew. His strength is such that he carries his Heavy Bolter, "Payback," as easily as a normal man might carry a rifle, without even breaking a sweat." (Imperial Guard Codex 5th ed, 09)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Harker#.VBMMcvmSyCY

Exhibit B.

"In battle, Corax favoured a Heavy Bolter for long-range killing, which he hefted and aimed as easily as an ordinary man would lift a battle rifle;." (Raven's Flight, 2010)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Corax#Wargear
 

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Might want to make a point. It's kind of how these things work. Raise question, provide evidence, answer given. At the minute, all you've done is provide evidence outside of any context whatsoever.

If you're talking in regards to the how the weapons are similar, Harker is an exceptional individual.

Also, carrying, and aiming accurately are two different things. I'd also have to double check the context of "favouring" a heavy bolter for long range killing, as the only time he took the Heavy Bolter was following the dropsite massacre, and one of his talons was broken (IIRC) by Curze.

Also, ignore the Lexicanum - it's a pretty poor resource.



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The wording in both works are almost the exact same and were published within one year of each other; the similarity made me suspicious. And I've double checked the original sources, so in this case, lexicanum is perfectly fine for me to quote.

Don't spend time lecturing me. I would much rather prefer a discussion about fluff descrepancies that makes little sense. Whether Harker spray-n-pray his HB is pure speculation on your part - it doesn't say, so as you said - pay attention to the source.
 

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Ask a question then.

"What the warp?" is not only grammatical nonsense, it is an exclamation expressed in the matter of question to which there can be no actual answer. If you wish to discuss something, please do something.

Kind regards, the english language.

"Kind regards"

Exhibit A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feces

Exhibit B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidisestablishmentarianism

Ta.



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A heavy bolter to a primarch would be like an SMG to a normal Joe, never mind a battle rifle.

Catachans are huge as humans go. I think way back when they introduced the various different IG units it actually mentioned something about the Catachan affinity with Ogryns having to do with the fact they were so similar. Then you have Harker. A giant amongst giants. He might not be as mobile with it as a primarch, but it's similar to the big dude in a modern day rifle squad getting lumped with the GPMG(m240 for our US members). After a while he usually becomes fairly proficient at throwing that thing around.
 

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Several possible answers.

1. The codices are known to be, at least partially, propaganda. It could be Harker's entry is a hyperbole to awe the masses.

2. Not all rifles are equally heavy...nor are all marks of heavy bolters the same.

3. The authors aren't always so creative. Just take it as an out of universe oops.
 

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In Gaunt's Ghosts (in Necropolis) Bragg fires an autocannon single handedly. AFAIK an autocannon is a similar size to a heavy bolter so maybe huge IG soldiers can fire heavy weapons single handedly.
 

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Dan Abnett tends to do exactly what he likes with the lore - after all, he has already recreated Sharpe, the Jedi and Pearl Harbour in his novels.

Autocannons are a funny one - namely because the idea that a tank supported autocannon chassis (i.e, the Predator's main gun, or a Salamander's) is the same one as carried en masse by infantry regiments is kind of strange, especially when that Predator Autocannon is used to score Tank Kills against rival Predators (bear in mind that Rhino's presented in fluff are tougher than represented in game - the old movie marines Dex had them tougher than Predators, for example, and the standard Boltgun was a Strength 6 AP4 weapon, IIRC).

There's a discrepancy there as well.

In my headcanon, I like to see autocannons as being a catch-all term for any large calibre weapon firing explosive shells at a reasonably high Rate of Fire, similar to a Bofors 40mm, but in the case of something like a Predator, maybe slotting all the way up to a 105mm type.

Meanwhile, a Heavy Bolter is firing 25mm shells - something more along the lines of a Bushmaster like on the Bradley.



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Several possible answers.

1. The codices are known to be, at least partially, propaganda. It could be Harker's entry is a hyperbole to awe the masses.

2. Not all rifles are equally heavy...nor are all marks of heavy bolters the same.

3. The authors aren't always so creative. Just take it as an out of universe oops.
To be fair the recoil on the heavy bolter would be minimal. Since bolt rounds contain only enough propellant to ensure the round leaves the barrel.

I'm not sure how much powder a 25MM would need to reliably leave the barrel but it probably would have to be much.
 

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To be fair the recoil on the heavy bolter would be minimal. Since bolt rounds contain only enough propellant to ensure the round leaves the barrel.

I'm not sure how much powder a 25MM would need to reliably leave the barrel but it probably would have to be much.
Yeah multiple fluff says that a SM bolter would break a normal man's arm.
 

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Yeah multiple fluff says that a SM bolter would break a normal man's arm.
Which ones again?

I know in The Purging of Kadillus, we have a Space Marine giving a guardsman his bolt pistol, and the guardsman mentions the pistol has the kick of an auto-rifle.

Boltguns and boltpistols use the same ammo, right? So kick should be roughly the same.

In The Emperor's Gift, a female Inquisitor is given an Astartes boltgun...with the only modification of it being some suspensors to hold its weight. No mention of any recoiling nullifying effects of the suspensors nor of any augmetic, bionic, or other physical enhancement to the female inquisitor.

In the Deathwatch Corerulebook, suspensors are again mentioned as a weight canceling device, "Many [devastator marines] carry suspensors, small devices attached to the heavy weapon that utilise a miniature anti-grav generator to provide sufficient lift to offset the weight of the weapon."

The specific entry describing suspensors later in the book says they make weapons easier to use by off-setting their weight.

Not to derail too much, but I think a human could (if they could heft a bolgun) use the boltgun.
 

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Which ones again?

I know in The Purging of Kadillus, we have a Space Marine giving a guardsman his bolt pistol, and the guardsman mentions the pistol has the kick of an auto-rifle.

Boltguns and boltpistols use the same ammo, right? So kick should be roughly the same.

In The Emperor's Gift, a female Inquisitor is given an Astartes boltgun...with the only modification of it being some suspensors to hold its weight. No mention of any recoiling nullifying effects of the suspensors nor of any augmetic, bionic, or other physical enhancement to the female inquisitor.

In the Deathwatch Corerulebook, suspensors are again mentioned as a weight canceling device, "Many [devastator marines] carry suspensors, small devices attached to the heavy weapon that utilise a miniature anti-grav generator to provide sufficient lift to offset the weight of the weapon."

The specific entry describing suspensors later in the book says they make weapons easier to use by off-setting their weight.

Not to derail too much, but I think a human could (if they could heft a bolgun) use the boltgun.
Rogue Trader Rulebook, pg. 122, 2009.
Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg 173
Imperial Guard 6th ed the one before they got rid of them.
 

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Rogue Trader Rulebook, pg. 122, 2009.
I can't find anything mentioning it breaking a man's arm. Closest thing I see is on the earlier page that says, "While most models are designed for the superhuman Space Marines, some are specially crafted with smaller grips and lighter construction for normal humans."

Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook, pg 173
This one does indeed state that potentially a person could dislocate their shoulder if they fired a Space Marine boltgun.

I guess it's another divergence of fluff. Your mileage may vary, I suppose.
 

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As much as I love it, nothing in RT can be seen as canon any more, I don't think. In it Leman Russ was an IG commander, the Rainbow Warriors and Space Sharks were first founding chapters while the smurfs were second founding IIRC, you could give your SMs shuriken catapults, the Slann were a playable race and SMs were kept in stasis between missions because they were so psychopathic.

Lets remember that IG can be issued bolt guns as well, which are obviously of smaller calibre than a SM version. The same could be true of heavy bolters.
 

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A better thread title might help to draw in more responses. :)
 

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Automatic Weapons can be accurate when shooting single shots. Obviously not pressing the trigger and 50 head shots. Both are pretty strong individuals as well. Its not too farfetched.

Next time could you put a better title though? I almost didn't even look at this thread. Had no idea what it was. Almost looked like a spam thread. Thanks dude.
 

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Which ones again?

I know in The Purging of Kadillus, we have a Space Marine giving a guardsman his bolt pistol, and the guardsman mentions the pistol has the kick of an auto-rifle.

Boltguns and boltpistols use the same ammo, right? So kick should be roughly the same.

In The Emperor's Gift, a female Inquisitor is given an Astartes boltgun...with the only modification of it being some suspensors to hold its weight. No mention of any recoiling nullifying effects of the suspensors nor of any augmetic, bionic, or other physical enhancement to the female inquisitor.

In the Deathwatch Corerulebook, suspensors are again mentioned as a weight canceling device, "Many [devastator marines] carry suspensors, small devices attached to the heavy weapon that utilise a miniature anti-grav generator to provide sufficient lift to offset the weight of the weapon."

The specific entry describing suspensors later in the book says they make weapons easier to use by off-setting their weight.

Not to derail too much, but I think a human could (if they could heft a bolgun) use the boltgun.
I actually have to differ. The caliber of the round is the same for the bolt pistol and boltgun. However the length of the round differs. The bullet for the bolt pistol has a smaller charge and size, which is why it has a shorter range, even when accounting for its gyrojet.

Its like saying a 9mm rifle round and a 9mm pistol round are the same, the calibler is the same but not the brass shell with the ignition charge.
 

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OP, in future, two things.

This thread title is garbage, and you seem to have left it completely ambiguous as to the point you are trying to make, if at all.

As Vaz said, raise a point and ask a question, don't post something that makes sense to you but forces everyone else to try and join the dots. It's irritating and even rude.

I mean, I don't even know what the fuck to rename this thread to generate actual search results.

Do better next time, please.
 

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I know this is a conversion but here's a nice model of an IG trooper carrying an autocannon:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/22098-Dak the Heavy, front.html
Hah. The Autocannon was a one-man carry in Necromunda too (and, coincidentally, far and away the best heavy weapon in the game).

As much as I love it, nothing in RT can be seen as canon any more, I don't think. In it Leman Russ was an IG commander, the Rainbow Warriors and Space Sharks were first founding chapters while the smurfs were second founding IIRC
"Imperial Commander" was just a broad title in the Rogue Trader era that covered anyone commanding Imperial troops. He was still listed as a Primarch in other places too.

But you're right in that pretty much everything from Rogue Trader is more or less non-canon. "Modern 40K" starts with 2nd Edition, because that's when Games Workshop finally collected the fluff into a single coherent storyline. Obviously it has been altered and added to (Dark Eldar being invented out of thin air for example), but the major storyline elements were hammered out in "final form". Horus Heresy 10,000 years ago. Emprah on the Throne. Traitors in the Eye of Terror. Imperium a giant xenophobic bureaucracy. Ecclesiarchy as the space church. etc.

The only piece of fluff that survived RT more or less intact was Priestley's "Origins of the Legiones Astartes", and I joke that it's the "oldest piece of 40K fluff". Should tell you the correct answer on female Space Marines. ;) In 25 years, the only piece of fluff that has survived unscathed is "No Girls Allowed".
 
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