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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Being a fan of all things Astartes, and liking a good argument, I took it upon myself to fight the corner of the Ultramarines in recent months as they've come under increasing bitterness and bile.

But what I really want to know is why people dislike them- note I don't want to hear it's because they're bloody blue- I'm fairly certain that any fluff argument some one comes up with, I and my fellow 'Defenders of Ultramar' can counter.

So have at, why do you dislike the boys in blue (or do you like them)?
 

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Death Before Dishonour
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I personally am somewhat neutral the the Ultramarines. They weren't my Chapter of choice when I first got Marines, nor do I dislike them. The Ultramarines are simply the best possible example of a Codex Astartes Chapter, this isnt saying they are the -best- Chapter, just the best example. The biggest source of negative flak they receive is from people who don't like the fact that GW use them as 'poster boys'. I maintain, that if you are going to look at a generic Marine Chapter who goes by the Codex Astartes, why not go with, as the icon for such Chapters, the Chapter who's Primarch created these guidelines, and who follows them the closest. If say Vulkan had written the Codex, and Sallies were the poster chapter, then the situation would be that Sallies are dumb.

That's my opinon then.

Grish
 

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Its funny, I used to dislike them but when I thought about it there was no reason to. Its not like they left the shattered Imperium all but leaderless so they could go off and vent their anger, or not suffer heavy losses trying to keep the Imperium together. And its not like their leader did not make it so no one could ever do what Horus did again, or fight a daemon primarch.
 

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I think the are quite cool. The name of their realm is lame, but it is a neat idea. One of the few lights in a dark room.

Though, I wish they paid more attention to the other armies as well, as they have rich histories and stories just like the Astartes do.

Argh, I have when GW went public.
 

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I actually have the reverse: I hate the variant chapters (blood angels (especially), dark angels (much less so, was introduced to 40k by the old space hulk computer game), space wolves and black templars). I don't mind that Codex Space marines are the poster boys for 40K, I don't mind that more often than not it's ultramarines (though I find the name dubious). I even think it entirely appropriate that the first codex per edition be codex astartes space marines. What I object to is 4 variants all with their own codex, and at least 3 of whom are close combat specialists. If it was just a matter of alternate models and fluff, fine, many of them do indeed look rather cool, but when GW has difficulty keeping armies up to date (more than one army is still using a 3rd edition codex) it annoys me tremendously that there are codexes for 4 variations on an army that already exists. I hate to imagine what long time players of races like Dark Eldar feel...
 

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We feel ever building frustration! :ireful2:

On the UM, I have nothing against them Baron. Admittedly, I am among the first to crack a joke at their expense, but in my case that`s nothing special. I call shit on everyone.

In truth, I actually enjoy reading about them, I am a fan of McNeill`s UM novels and always enjoy a game against the boys in blue.

But I will never play as them. For the sole reason that I stubbornly refuse to paint any of my models as they appear on the box...
 

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I don't hate the ultramarines, i think their fluff is pretty good and i actually like their colour scheme when done right (Gareth and Jpunk's UMs come to mind)

What i think irks me about them is that they lure new players into their trap, baiting them like internet predators.

You start 40K, you buy AOBR (or whatever the starter set is) and you get all excited about how cool the space marines look before you really read anything about other armies.

So you decide you'll probably play SM's, because you already have some models right? So you get the codex, and start reading through and it tells you how cool the UMs are. Then when you come to pick a chapter, you either choose the Black Consuls who "are blackand possibly dead" or you choose the Ultramarines with their codex full of fluff, and special characters and stuff.

Before you even know how to play properly, you have a UM army. Those sneaky devils.
 

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Rattlehead
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I used to hate them for taking up my White Dwarf where there should have been more pictures of Squigs dancing or engaged in other amusing activities, but then I started playing them. I then thought 'Oh, awesome! I get an army that looks cool, I don't get bored of painting and I get new models every month! Godmod!'

Midnight
 

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... I am just tired of looking at them and reading about them. A change of scenery is always refreshing, no?
Though, I wish they paid more attention to the other armies as well, as they have rich histories and stories just like the Astartes do.
These two.

3, I'm a Word Bearer, its my job to hate Ultramarines. :p

4, UMs are called the best of the best, even though it wasn't them who held the gates of the Imperial Palace. It was the Imperial Fists, the Blood Angels, and the White Scars who stood their ground against all the killy things Horus could muster. Which was much, much more than anything the Ultrasmurfs handled with everything considered. Yes, even the oh-so-deadly Tyranid Tendril that got to Macragge was childs play in comparison to that. I'm not saying that the Ultrasmurfs don't deserve credit for that (though I detect the hand of the Space Marine 3+), only that they shouldn't go around and tell everyone what they should do.

5, Hatred is not an opinion, its a choice. You might hate someone for several reasons but in the long run opinions become outdated, rusty, or just plain bullshit. But when its a choice theres no reasoning, just seasoning... :laugh:
 

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blahblahblahblah
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overused, hyped up, and according to Jervis twatface johnson EVERYONE loves them and EVERYONE has collected them or does collect them, which I don't and don't want to.
 

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My dislike for them is GW's fault. i thought they were cool untill the only legion to be feautred in the 5th ed codex was them whcih made me very angry becasue it gives gullieman a ton of love and gives almost none to the chapters and their primarchs. Other chapters did stuff to GW... not just the ultras.
 

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I like Ultramarines, most people don't. On that note I giggle whenever someone says most people don't like them and everyone plays them in the same post(not saying anyone did this time but last pro smurf post.. boy I was cracking up.) In truth all the hate towards them keeps people from playing them to the point where actually in person I've only seen 2 Ultramarine armies one of which was from someone who played them because the only marine army left that no one played was the Ultramarines.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
4, UMs are called the best of the best, even though it wasn't them who held the gates of the Imperial Palace. It was the Imperial Fists, the Blood Angels, and the White Scars who stood their ground against all the killy things Horus could muster. Which was much, much more than anything the Ultrasmurfs handled with everything considered. Yes, even the oh-so-deadly Tyranid Tendril that got to Macragge was childs play in comparison to that. I'm not saying that the Ultrasmurfs don't deserve credit for that (though I detect the hand of the Space Marine 3+), only that they shouldn't go around and tell everyone what they should do.
It wasn't the Ultramarines who held the Imperial Palace but then again they made significantly better time getting to Terra than either the Space Wolves or Dark Angels, and they held the Imperium together through the long Scouring- losing most the Legion (90.4% to be exact) whilst the IF and SW decided to go and do whatever they wanted and the rest of the Legions did bugger all...except the Dark Angels who had their own mini civil war.
My dislike for them is GW's fault. i thought they were cool untill the only legion to be feautred in the 5th ed codex was them whcih made me very angry becasue it gives gullieman a ton of love and gives almost none to the chapters and their primarchs. Other chapters did stuff to GW... not just the ultras.
They are the Codex Chapter which all other Codex Chapters are based on, complaining that they're the focus of Codex: Space Marines is like complaining that the Blood Angels are the focus of their Codex instead of the Flesh Tearers.

Others Chapters did stuff as well as the UM, but only the other First Founding Chapters did any where near as much.
I like Ultramarines, most people don't. On that note I giggle whenever someone says most people don't like them and everyone plays them in the same post(not saying anyone did this time but last pro smurf post.. boy I was cracking up.) In truth all the hate towards them keeps people from playing them to the point where actually in person I've only seen 2 Ultramarine armies one of which was from someone who played them because the only marine army left that no one played was the Ultramarines.
I'm amazed by this thread so far, usually we get the ignorant gits coming along saying 'the UM didn't do anything for the Imperium around the Heresy' but none of that here...so far.
 

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Ignorant git arriving on schedule! :D


Too much Games Workshop attention, and they're annoying. Ooh, look at us! We're better! Really!

The Ultramarines managed to get themselves lost during the Heresy. As has been said elsewhere. "they're conveniently on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs."

Warhammer would be better with Crimson Fists as the poster boys again. If nothing else, they have better fluff and colour scheme.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ignorant git arriving on schedule! :D


Too much Games Workshop attention, and they're annoying. Ooh, look at us! We're better! Really!

The Ultramarines managed to get themselves lost during the Heresy. As has been said elsewhere. "they're conveniently on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs."

Warhammer would be better with Crimson Fists as the poster boys again. If nothing else, they have better fluff and colour scheme.
Ah here we go...

Yes conveniently, convenient for Horus who ordered them to return and regroup at Ultramar and then whilst they were assembling the Warmaster tasked the Word Bearers- the 2nd largest Legion- with attacking and destroying the UM. Other than that yeah I suppose you could say they got lost...

Now the White Scars knew nothing about the Heresy for the 7 years it was going on, the only thing they did in the entire civil war was to assemble at Terra.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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In the wolves defence, baron, they were rather mangled after the heresy. Fighting with the tsons and the alpha legions, which allowed the white scars to reinforce Terra, had left them with so few men I doubt they would have been much use to te defenders.... But they did do their part, you must admit.
 

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I dont hate the Ultramarines I just dislike that they get the the majority of the attention. Oh Look we have a movie named after us AND we're in a video game! It also annoys me that it seems to be the army most little kids joining the hobby start (at least in my area.) So i do see them ALOT!!

Now going to the point about them not doing anything during the heresy I strongly disagree with that. Now I do think they didn't do much DURING the Heresy but AFTER the Heresy they are probably one of the reasons there still is an Imperium.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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You have a good point... I do t remember hea.... Wait, they were almost all dead! Lol
 
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