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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I guess I must have done something right in a previous life. I've gotten my greedy little claws on the new chaos codex and had a good chance and time reading it through. And I think I can safely say that things are as bad as some doomsayer have been telling us...and who I almost started to believed.

Didn't get a chance to fully read it through, figured I'd stick to the rules and lovely pics. To beat right now to give more details, but ask me tomorrow and I'll try to answer as correctly as I can. In fact have read through nearly all the rules I can only say that two things are a but 'could be better' everything else looked pretty good. The 'bleh'parts were some of the renegade legion names and a few units that are simple SM copies (raptors, landraider and predator).

Few things I can quickly confirm;
- daemon weapon is fixed cost, your mark determines it specific effects- is two-handed power weapon that grants D6 additional attacks + mark bonus (40 points)
- daemonic gifts are gone
- chosen may have 4 members replacing gear for special weapons (ranged and cc) and a heavy weapon
- termies are cheaper and have the option of replacing gear with a pair of lighting claws
- possessed are indeed as random as rumored
- csm 1 special weapon, second only from 10 or more in the unit
- cult troops are seperate entries (blastmaster seems very expensive)
- bikers down to 1 attack
- spawns (1-3) seem a bit random and fragile, but with some experimenting could become very cool. And they do not take up a slot on the organisation chart.
- raptors loose hit-and-run, but become cheaper (20), loose the 0-1 and have access to marks...I can already see the multitude of conversions for the next golden daemon contest :wink:
- havocs may buy for weapons, group from 5-20
- oblits up in prize, loose invul save and 1T
- my only real disappointment so far - the lesser daemons - 8 complete units kicked out for a generic daemon - still for 13 points a pop they aren't bad
- greater daemons, though a bit uninspiring, seem great value for their buck(100 points)
- new huron blackheart character finally before I black-out is, although not bad, not as good or special as he could have been
- on a very positive note (for me anyway) Fabius Bile is still in da house and better then ever. No more random stats and still playing the deranged genetic manipulator.

- Have more written down, but I just can' t type anymore...sorry guys.....in a few hours (excuse the typoe, I can hardly sit up straight i my chair at the moment )


Cheers :mrgreen:


-Hephesto-
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I looked for this and was unable to find anything that said they are not scoring units. So I'd say yes. Believe the exact wording was they do not take up force organisation chart slot, but otherwise are treated like they are a Troop unit.

In fact the only real difference with normal troops is that they deepstrike to icons and have an invul save. No more instability or differences all daemon types are now the same. So for now that means no nurglings, but this should be fixed by next year (daemon codex).


Next :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I rather like it, but I do agree that the customisation has been cut down like crazy. Real shame.

Whatsmore this new codex does allow you to take a more diverse amy, taking units from all different stuff. Unfortunately this does mean that having certain fluff armies is tough as nails, reworking my Iron Warriors is turning into a tough job as I don't want to take cult marines, icons or daemons. Meaning that I'll most likely end up with a horde of csm's if I want to stick with my theme, but I'll get it to work...eventually.

Still in general I'm happy with the new codex, though I can understand why some people with certain armies will be disappointed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Lets just say that 'a friend' of mine has now also managed to get his hands on a pdf version of the codex already. So ask away guys, looks like I'll be able to answer all questions, though I won't be posting up to specific data......don't want to get in to (to much) trouble with GW :wink:


The main problem with the codex seems to be for people who have already build up a legion specific army. I'm not saying they majorly dropped the ball, it just looks like they thought the previous codex as...well to chaotic. Unfortunately the new one isn't much better (stupid eldar layout stuff), you'll be flipping pages back and forth until you go mad. Unit specific rules in the front, wargear before the army list, units in armylists, daemons before and after the list......
Or learn by heart where to find what, like me in 2 days. Well with some imagination and 'counts as' reasoning quite a lott can be salvaged. The major legion changes;


- Black Legion

Nothing really, can still take followers from all chaos powers....as can all legions now. Abaddon has gotten quite a boost, massive close combat potential! Big difference between Icon marines and cult marines though. Cult marines are the 'real' followers of the gods, whereas iconers just swear loyalty to them gaining a 'minor' benefit. Termies for example can buy an icon dedicated to a god or undivided for 1 fixed cost regardless of groupsize.

- Word Bearers

Dark apostle and accursed crozius are gone, but a bit of clever upgrade chosing can change this. Just say that that big ornate staff is a Tzeentch Icon and voila 4+ invul save and daemon weapon. Daemons are a bit more probematic, as all of them are now thrown into 2 categories. Greater and lesser daemons, and though both are pretty good they just don't cut it for word bearers. You don't want a vast horde of generic daemons around, in fact Nurglings and mounted daemonettes can't even be used anymore. But this should be fixed in a year....seriously fixed if the rumors are true.

- Night Lords

No more extra cover save, fast attack slot or those flying daemons. The 0-1 on Raptors has been removed for everybody and they can take Icons (same principle as marks)

- Alpha Legion

Loose infiltration skill and cultists, effectively making 1/3 of most AL players' armies useless. True shame as they now seem downgraded to either making a normal armies heavy on infiltration chosen (very good, but expensive unit) or as a generic csm unit with blue and green that only serves a fluff role in the army.

- Iron Warriors

Warsmith, servo-arm, 4th HS slot and basilisk are gone. And though the new list does make it possible to go heavy duty on HS it gets limited very quickly if you want to stick to fluff and stay away from FA and daemons. Almost forcing you to take chosen and termies (seperate unit now, very good for cheaper pointscost). As a result I'm now more or less forced to take spawn (FA and semi-daemonic) and convert them to cyber spawn, as well as take termies as I already have 40+ cms at the moment. Still I'll get this list to work even if it is the last thing I do.



- God legions

No more individual lists, restrictions, bonusses and/or wargear
Though a lord/sorceror can still take a mark gaining a god themed bonus, gaining access to a good specific daemon weapon bonus (1 cost, bonus depends on mark), a god specific magic spell as well as a god specific mount.



- Worldeaters....

Lotts of WE players are quite disappointed, though the new list does make WE still quite playable they have lost most of their flavor. No more chainaxes, bloodlust and they now walk side by side with Slaanesh worshippers....that just can't be right...can it ?
Kharn got stronger, lost a wound and has furious charge now.

- Emperor's Children

Still playable with all sonic weapons still in their, although the blast master seems a bit insane for +40 points. But that could just as well be my perspective. Doom siren is evil as hell though template AP3 (a lott of tough weapons seems suspiciously themed to kicking the **** out of SM or other CSM of course) Lucius is as effective as ever. No more Khorne rivalry....

- Deathguard

True grit is gone as are the other cool upgrades and relics, they now have feel no pain and blight grenades(no +1 attack to enemies charging them) as standard. Typhus is still kick ass, has 2 psychic powers, passes tests required for these automatically, scythe is daemon and force weapon (force weapon does require test to use), destroyer hive confers frag and blight grenades nothing more, fearless and feels no pain. No more Tzeentch rivalry.

- Thousand Sons

Well they definitely got the biggest boost, their mark is the best, their cult marines are the best and their psychic powers/daemon weapon are very good. Icons give 5+ invul or +1 to any invul a model already had. Cult marines are very tough; 4+ invul, slow and purposeful (only 1 dice if sorceror dies), fearless and inferno bolts (ap3). To be honest they might even be a bit cheap for their power (23), but in all fairness this is partially cancelled out by the obligated expensive sorceror and his required 1 psychic power. No more Nurgle rivalry... Ahriman knows 5 spells, can take 3 psychic tests a turn, us multiple firing spells, has inferno bolts, 4+ save and force weapon. Got more expensive though, 250 now

Still I think 1k sons will be dominating armies and tournaments near you in a not so distant periode of time :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Could be me but half the armies make heavy use of power armour or heavy armour, so thousand sons will do some serious damage there. Guessing you're not that happy with the new codex :wink:

But back on topic, any other questions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Totally agree...actually quite tempted to take some, but that would be out of character for Iron Warriors :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Ah well, at least it is better than having to buy 2 crummy White Dwarfs like Blood Angel players had to do :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
True, but no codex has managed to piss me of as much as some WD's :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I've finally managed to get a positive look on it.....mostly due to not having much of a choice about it. Though not a bad codex, it has made some deep cuts in the whole feel of the army and in my opinion is pretty much a slap in the face of longtime chaos gamers. Telling them they're playing space marines with spikes (literally, codex starts out with' why play csm....well space marines are all tough and stuff......) and that they have to stop whining because of the amazing apocalypse codex due in oktober......for which they missed their own set deadline for the site opening...a site which when finally open offers about as much interesting stuff as having a conversation with a red shirt :wink:

Still we'll have to struggle our way through, loose half our current army and pray to Horus that the daemon codex will be any good and not just an excuses to sell some overprized daemons that can only be used in a daemon army.
 
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