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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A slow day at work and playing with Battle Scribe has made me hypothises the following list.

Its not perfect, and any army that slows down my reserve rolls will be a pain. But I think this list brings the Pain very quickly into the opponents face.

Using Huron you can be sure that the Melta Chosen on foot are close at the start of the game, the next turn you should get some deep striking and the 10 spawn is allot of T5 wounds on the table.

+ HQ (310pts) +

Chaos Lord (150pts) : Burning Brand of Skalanthrax, Mark of Tzeentch, Terminator Armour, Power Sword

Huron Blackheart (160pts)

+ Elites (517pts) +

Chaos Terminators (177pts)
Terminator x5
Combi-melta x4 - Power Sword (Champ has Combi-Bolter)

Chosen (140pts) [4x Chosen, 4x Meltagun]
Chosen Champion [Combi-melta]

Chosen (200pts) [4x Chosen, 4x Combi-plasma]
Chaos Rhino [Legacy of Ruin: Maelstrom Raider]
Chosen Champion, 4x Combi-plasma

+ Troops (280pts) +

Chaos Space Marines (140pts) [Meltagun]
Aspiring Champion [Combi-melta]
Chaos Rhino [Combi-melta]
4x Chaos Space Marine with Boltguns

Chaos Space Marines (140pts) [Meltagun]
Aspiring Champion [Combi-melta]
Chaos Rhino [Combi-melta]
4x Chaos Space Marine with Boltguns

+ Fast Attack (120pts) +

Chaos Spawn (60pts) [2x Spawn]
Chaos Spawn (30pts) [Spawn]
Chaos Spawn (30pts) [Spawn]

++ (Fortification Detachment) (70pts) ++

Aegis Defense Line (70pts) [Comms Relay]

Formation: Mayhem Pack (300pts)
Helbrute [Multi-melta, Power fist]
Helbrute [Multi-melta, Power fist]
Helbrute [Multi-melta, Power fist]

++ Renegades & Heretics: (Allied Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot (110pts) +
Renegade Chaos Spawn (55pts) [3x Spawn]
Renegade Chaos Spawn (55pts) [3x Spawn]

+ HQ (60pts) +
Renegade Command Squad (60pts)
Arch Demagogue
Disciple w/ Command Net Vox
2x Disciple w/ Lasgun
Disciple w/ Meltagun]

+ Troops (120pts) +

Renegade Infantry Veterans (60pts) [Scout]
Veteran w/ Meltagun 4x Veteran w/ Shotgun

Renegade Infantry Veterans (60pts) [Scout]
Veteran w/ Meltagun 4x Veteran w/ Shotgun

+ Fast Attack (60pts) +

Renegade Sentinel Squadron (60pts) [Heavy Flamer, Searchlight] x3

+ Heavy Support (55pts) +

Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery (55pts)
Artillery Carriage [Earthshaker Cannon]
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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4,249 Posts
I'll be honest: I really am not that fond of how Battlescribe formats things. Too much scruff, fluff, and listing of pre-existing items/rules surrounding units without a clear forum-based format to display the exact models and purchases being made.

That said, I'll dig into this as best I can:

I would certainly buy a chainfist for the Termis to give them the flexibility to face the foes they would currently struggle against. I would also be tempted to go for the MoT, to help them survive against the anti-tank/heavy infantry threats to which they would be vulnerable... though it does cost a good few points, that I dunno where would come from.

So... for fast attack, are you really buying 2 Spawn, 1 Spawn, and 1 Spawn? That seems a vulnerability against that rare game when you roll kill points, honestly, to me. Especially when you're bringing 2 squads of 3 Renegade Spawn in the AI section of the list. I'd rather bring a squad of 4 spawn of 2 squads of 2, or something. I just... honestly don't quite get the idea behind 2:1:1, as they don't even have the tactical flexibility of Obliterators; they're just distraction/tie-up units and free kill points, as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to belabor the point or anything...

So what are you bringing in with the Comms Relay? I generally don't take it personally unless I have at least 2 units coming in by it, to justify the cost: in this case, would it be the melta-Chosen and the Helbrutes? I'd try to get those melta-Chosen in a Rhino or something, at least, even if it means the culling of few-point upgrades across the list.

Do bear in mind that Chosen Champions can buy special weapons along with their squadmates, thanks to the peculiar wording of their unit entry in which one of their two special weapon purchases says "models" rather than "Chosen" in the unit, meaning the Champion qualifies as a legitimate purchaser of the fifth melta/plasma, rather than having to buy a combi-weapon RAW...

I don't think you need to buy the Maelstrom Raider special rule, seeing as IIRC, Chosen already have either Outflank or Infiltrate-which-grants-Outflank, and as has been gone into in another thread, a unit which has a specific special rule grants it to their Dedicated Transport--so the Maelstrom Raider purchase is a mere redundancy, on a unit which already can do what it would let it do. Buy it for another unit, perhaps... but here, it isn't needed.
 

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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll be honest: I really am not that fond of how Battlescribe formats things. Too much scruff, fluff, and listing of pre-existing items/rules surrounding units without a clear forum-based format to display the exact models and purchases being made.
I see what you mean, I have made an edit, hope that looks better!

I would certainly buy a chainfist for the Termis to give them the flexibility to face the foes they would currently struggle against. I would also be tempted to go for the MoT, to help them survive against the anti-tank/heavy infantry threats to which they would be vulnerable... though it does cost a good few points, that I dunno where would come from.
Given the amount of Melta I had on the list I felt that AP3 would be ideal for the 2nd turn after Deep Striking . Turn 1 they melt amour then they turn on Infantry.

So... for fast attack, are you really buying 2 Spawn, 1 Spawn, and 1 Spawn? That seems a vulnerability against that rare game when you roll kill points,
That’s a good point, running two units of two is a much better plan… The point of having so many is the quick push up the table to be in assault range at the same time as the rest of the army.

So what are you bringing in with the Comms Relay? I generally don't take it personally unless I have at least 2 units coming in by it, to justify the cost: in this case, would it be the melta-Chosen and the Helbrutes? I'd try to get those melta-Chosen in a Rhino or something, at least, even if it means the culling of few-point upgrades across the list.
It would be the Plasma Chosen in the Outflaking Rhino, the Terminators, and the Helbrutes.

I don't think you need to buy the Maelstrom Raider special rule, seeing as IIRC, Chosen already have either Outflank or Infiltrate-which-grants-Outflank.
Chosen sadly don’t get infiltrate in this edition, unless I have missed something? And I will be using Huron to infiltrate the Melta Chosen and then the two squads of CSM.

So the Vets and Sentinels have a scout move.. Leaving the Ordnance Battery and Command squad to hold the defense line. As the 10 spawn run up to the Infiltrators, meaning that with the rell-rolls provided by the coms relay, most of the army will be in the opponents deployment zone in turn 2..

I am not sure it’s the greatest list, I think calling it Hammer and Anvil isn’t quite correct, it’s much more of a blitz list.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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4,249 Posts
Yeah, I have built my own list of "Hammer" (Outflanking Daemonettes and Seekers) and "Anvil" (Noise Marine with Heavy weapons), so was intrigued by the list name--but it might well be more of a blitz brigade, or even blitzkrieg (for all that it's not relevant to the Death Korps of Krieg or a... more unsavory of real-world comparison).

Well, yeah, I would just rely on Huron to Infiltrate 2 or more squads of Chosen. My own fault for relying on a 3+, perhaps: if you're willing to gamble the 25 point upgrade for the assured sake of never backfiring, more power to you.

As far as the Termis: perhaps you melt armor T1, but you can't rely on having taken out the only armor the enemy have, let alone their only armored Walker; I would feel much more secure having spent the extra couple points for the Chainfist, which also doubles as a "mere" power fist against such units that AP2 would be useful against as you might run up against. Your Termis only have to be gobstopped by a 2+ save once, I think, so see the value of such a minimal point purchase... on top of the additional anti-tank and Walker-clearing capacity it offers.
 

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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, yeah, I would just rely on Huron to Infiltrate 2 or more squads of Chosen. My own fault for relying on a 3+, perhaps: if you're willing to gamble the 25 point upgrade for the assured sake of never backfiring, more power to you.
well its 25 points for the 'good day' to have 4 units up the table, and 2 on the bad day... and I agree not sure its worth the points. But it is kinda the point of this blitz-List.

As far as the Termis: perhaps you melt armor T1, but you can't rely on having taken out the only armor the enemy have, let alone their only armored Walker; I would feel much more secure having spent the extra couple points for the Chainfist, which also doubles as a "mere" power fist against such units that AP2 would be useful against as you might run up against. Your Termis only have to be gobstopped by a 2+ save once, I think, so see the value of such a minimal point purchase... on top of the additional anti-tank and Walker-clearing capacity it offers.
I see the point, just need to ponder what should be dropped? I tried to keep all the units cheep to have plenty. but I do see the point on Chain fists. I will have a debate on that for a bit, still a good few months before iam close to having this list together (even with proxies)
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Making that cut is painful. Even dropping a combi-melta off a champ or Rhino, you're still a few points short--but to my eyes, ensuring that your expensive Termi unit that can take most comers being upgraded to taking all comers... is worth it, painful cut or no.
 

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it has to be noted that chosen champions CAN take special stuff from the unit entry and are not restricted to the armoury. So your combi-stuff can become a full melta
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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it has to be noted that chosen champions CAN take special stuff from the unit entry and are not restricted to the armoury.
I'd be interested in a specific FAQ citation here, or something, just in the interest of being able to dismiss eye-rolling-worthy conversations with rules lawyers at the gaming table (or even just the freedom to field units as one pleases without fear of being called out on it w/r/t common in-game disputes). I mean, I know that the RAW wording of the Chosen unit in particular allows for the Champ to take a special weapon alongside the standard troopers, but...

Aiaiai.
 

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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Making that cut is painful. Even dropping a combi-melta off a champ or Rhino, you're still a few points short--but to my eyes, ensuring that your expensive Termi unit that can take most comers being upgraded to taking all comers... is worth it, painful cut or no.
I think the points have to come from the lord, droping the Mark and the Burning Brand.. for a Chain Fist and Combi-Melta. Lets me add two more Chain-fists into the Termi unit.. which adds the missing edge I think..
 

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I mean, I know that the RAW wording of the Chosen unit in particular allows for the Champ to take a special weapon alongside the standard troopers, but...
exactly. never faq'd, no need to. pretty clear. if they argue because they don't like it, start arguing about the serpent shield not being one use only. Nothing more clear than "Up to four models may choose...(special weapons)" and "one chosen may replace...(special and heavy weapons)" or "the chosen champion may take (the usual shitty stuff)"

You get the champion take the "up to 4 models stuff", then 3 more models take that stuff and last the "one chosen" gets his special weapon too. easy peasy. otherwise we could have 5 plasmaguns on normal guys AND a combiplasma on the champ. but that would be overkill ;)
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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if they argue because they don't like it, start arguing about the serpent shield not being one use only.
Sure. I admit I was hoping for something that liberated Chaos from the limitation of such champion wording as a whole, rather than something Chosen-specific... but yeah, I see your point. I am amused, however, by the fact that both you (here) and I (on various places across the forum tonight) have defaulted to Eldar players as the height of competitiveness within the hobby. Hah, must have something to do with them having both Wave Serpents and Wraithknights, or whatnot...
 

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Eldar players as the height of competitiveness within the hobby
eheh must be a coincidence! generally speaking, if you play eldar...you are almost compelled to own 4 waveserpents and wraithknights... :laugh:
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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But even--not to grouse overmuch--a list of Warp Spiders and Guardian Jetbikes, with only one or two Wave Serpents with Fire Dragons in, is going to wreck some serious face and zip where the warp ever it wants to be on the table.
 

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absolutely so, and that would even be a fantastic list to play against and with. we just need to get some players to understand that :p
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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absolutely so, and that would even be a fantastic list to play against and with. we just need to get some players to understand that :p
Absolutely. Just played a Highlander tourney that really minimized Eldar spamminess and though I lost 9 to 7, it was one of the most fun games I've played against Eldar: enemy Trolltarch, 1 Wave Serpent, big block of jetbikes, some Shining Spears, some Warp Spiders, a Fire Prism and a Falcon... against my Screamers, Daemonettes, Seekers, Be'lakor, Soul Grinder... a fun match-up.
 
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