what id like to point out to people is that 40k is just that, year 40 000. so if their time passed as ours does, it would still be 40k even if its 40 999

 

You've only addressed one of the issues people are upset about, the price increase. The other two you mentioned are negligible or non-existent (the 3rd one). The other issues include GW barring Europe based online retailers like maelstrom from selling outside of Europe so basically those in Australia, Canada, etc (everywhere but US and EU) are stuck paying GW's outrageous prices. The rumor that they will stop giving incoming announcements until only days (one week?) before release. The switch from metal to resin with an accompanying price increase. The lack of FAQ support. The lack of transparency from a HOBBY company.

It's important to understand this is hardly a logical issue as I've seen GW's decisions trying to be explained away by a number of forum members. Perhaps they are right. But this is more an emotional issue as many of us are highly invested in the game. It's a wonderful social experience, but the combination of all these issues makes many members of the player base feel betrayed. With all these drastic decisions coming on, where is the future of this hobby going? I certainly don't want to stick around to find out.

 

Yeah but loads of companies do that.

Just look at the way DVD's are sold, they are region locked.

It all has to do with currency and exchange rates. If you can buy products cheaper (cumulatively) from China, why ever by them from your own country?

Also why don't you want to stick around to find out ... its not that expensive?

A decent night out where I live is around £60-100 thats still quite alot of Warhammer models.

Also, so you can only buy one squad every 2, 3, 4 weeks, start off playing 500pts, then 1000pts etc.

The hobby isn't so expensive that only a privilaged minority can afford it.

Also I covered that yes they do need to interact with fan alot more, and that would indeed include things like announcing new releases.

But then again, as a business, if you announce a new model is being released in 6 months, how many consumers will continue to buy the soon to be replaced model.

Unfair? Yes. Always done ... Yes!!!

That's capitalism for you.


Seriously, no-one needs to quit the hobby.

I think this is a gut reaction thing, like people saying they will sell their PS3's because of the whole hacking downtime.

Just an overreaction. Are there problems, yes, are they insurmountable, no.

Thats my $0.02 anyway.

 

The Warhammers are the only games I know that have 1/15th of the rules released with 6 month gaps, with the armies at the end of the cycle getting shafted as, make no doubt, the new edition will arrive straight after, starting the fractal eternal wheel all over.

GW insists on supporting the long since dead LoTR franchise and the total of 3 players that play it by taking out of the pockets of the hundreds of thousands that play the Warhammers.

White Dwarf is an advertisement catalogue that costs 10$.

Citadel can't make (many) paints or any glue or tools worth a damn compared to their competitors to save their life.

Every year thousands leave the hobby with the annual arbitrary price increase.

Games Workshop insists of producing their product and keeping HQ in the United Kingdom, even if outsourcing and relocating could cut costs by over 50%+. The factory in Singapore that helped them finally get into the green numbers was closed down, for no apparent reason.

Games Workshop, in the same fell swoop as they embargoed independent stockists from selling cross-continent, raised prices in the Americas and Germany by 20% on most product.

On the embargo itself: they could have more easily shut down their own shops in Australia and America, as they are one hundred percent useless. They are nothing but a liability, but instead they choose to make it impossible to buy from anywhere else, making people quit (although GW probably thinks they will keep buying at 2X the price)

Upon switching to resin, a 94% cheaper material than pewter, those very products went up in price by 20% - and this is in a year where Games Workshop has had more profits than ever before.

Black Library, to this day, refuse to print a book that is not about the Imperium or Chaos. It still remains to be seen if they'll ever hire a writer that can form coherent sentences.

Games Workshop's codex editors have as much concept of overarching balance as a sentient unicycle with a drinking problem.

Games Workshop, in recent history and until now refuse to license a video game that isn't about SPESS MUGHREENGS or the spiky variants.

Warhammer 40K has 6 armies that are more or less the same, but with different codices. This bloating ensures those who are playing something interesting and adding to the variety of the game with other armies, will be in pain for several years before they get new rules.

GW are blind to it's competitors, and these competitors are finally rising to the challenge of making product as good looking as GW coupled with vastly superior rules. This means GW is quickly pricing themselves out of business.

Make no mistake, GW is shit. It is the games that were imagined 35 years ago that are awesome. Too bad my Tau army won't even get 3 months in 5th edition with an updated codex before it goes obsolete.

 

This. Thisthisthis. Thank you for making my screeching rant for me.

 

Lets say you consistently order from Warstore, Maelstrom, etc and are suddenly told that you can no longer order from these sites. Now you are paying the full price from your original 20% off plus the new price hike. Would you be content to sit around and say, "Logically I can see why GW is doing this, so I'm just fine with it too."

I also never said that I could not afford the hobby and many others are in the same boat. Yet when there are considerable price hikes every six months or so, in addition to the other problems I've mentioned, I simply don't really feel like being a part of that.

Please take down your straw men as I never said anything about them having a new advertising model in which they announce models six months in advance. I'm talking about them changing from their current advertising model to one where they pretty much announce nothing at all. How is a customer going to save up to buy a new army when they only have a week to a couple days from release?

If I'm mainly in this for the social aspect of the hobby, and I know I'm not alone, why stick with GW when PP is right around the corner? They have immediate FAQs to their rulebooks that are all kept balanced and up-to-date, cost less overall, have beautiful models (imo of course), and most people in my area have already made the change.

 

In my opinion, they have spent more time trying to get price increases and cutting jobs than actually trying to spread the hobby and make the big bucks like they did back in the day. Price has always alienated potential fans. They are retarded. So this price increase is suppose to help them somehow?

They're expecting us... the loyal fan (code name: dumbass) that stuck with the hobby to keep buying all this shit and go... "Oh well... I still like this shit." Stupid fucken bastards. And I've actually strained away from the hobby because they are stupid. I love building shit for the hell of it. But I'm not going to let them squeeze me.

As far as the codexes.... I don't know. Firstly, we should be expecting some evolution from the fluff. Some of the fluff is good, but then again, its newer information like the Daemon Codex that we now have good information on. But others... just seem like a load of bullshit ideas they piled up. The Tyranid Codex with the fucken Parasite thing, Doom of Malantai... wtf? Really? Single Tyranids taking on entire worlds? Thats some stupid fucking bullshit. We also have another Tyranid thats still hiding in Ultramar somehow. Okay... whatever.

Of course... then we have the new Grey Knights codex. Which has the inquisition but only limited parts of it. Doesn't even have legitimate imperial guard options or battle sisters.

Lets go back to Chaos. WTF! WTF! Seriously? A Chaos Space Marine Codex and A Daemons of Chaos Codex? You can't even use that book to play a legitimate army. They destroyed the fluffness of chaos! STupid Bastards.

They also decided to make some cute codexes for the Black Templar and Dark Angels... which... cough.. cough... I must say. Suck dick. But for some reason wish not to shine any light on a Chaos Legion army which would probably boost GW with a whole bunch of teenage funs that walk by the GW stores and would probably say "ooooh look at the awesome night lords... or fucken dang Iron Warriors in those tanks." Cause we all know... EVERYBODY LOVES CHAOS! But why do that? Why help themselves out? I have a traditional GW idea! Lets make another second founding chapter codex!!! WTF! Lets also make the most interesting Chapter from the most interesting Legion look like shit on the table top!!!

GW really needs some interogator chaplains to fix this fricken problem. And yes... I'm afraid there must be blood!

 

GW really needs some interogator chaplains to fix this fricken problem. And yes... I'm afraid there must be blood!

Indeed. And that is all I have to say on the matter, for if the Dark Angels had a new codex (not written by Ward and with some decent points and units) then I wouldn't give a shit about price increases etc.

 

Guys, seriously, chill the FUCK out.

Games Workshop is just a company doing the best it can. Now, do I think it's made all the right decisions? No, hell it's made some pretty poor ones lately but the better way to handle it is be SUPPORTIVE of the company and try to help it get through hard times rather than bitch and moan about every single thing GW does (*cough*MetalHandkerchief*cough*).

It's not the fucking end of the world, if you don't like GW so much then either A: stop playing or B: solve your problems instead of bitching. For example, GW prices got you down? Boo fuckidy hoo, just buy from a third party that sells GW for cheap (I recommend darksphere.co.uk personally).

It's honestly not that hard, it's all this whining thats making it 1,000 times worse.

OP: I've never heard a single person ever complain about #3. Ever.....?

 

Typical bitch-out attitude. You say bitching doesn't help? Well fuck me. I thought silently bending over and taking the corporate rod is what didn't help! Maybe if the customers are, you know, reacting poorly to the company and their poor practice in public, potential new players would steer away. Right now I wouldn't want my worst enemy to start up these games, until this company can show they got at least someone intelligent and educated making desicions.

Fact is, I reserve the right to "bitch and moan", and you forget that I am completely unaffected by Games Workshop's latest shark attack - I just can not stand by and watch their metaphorical rape of other customers that are.

No. I will not chill the fuck out. I will do my part as a human being and show some fucking sympathy.

 

Hey! I also have the right to bitch! I don't give a shit! I'll bitch. I've been a loyal fan for over a decade. Fuck them. And for your info, I actually do not buy models at all from GW. And a few of my friends have strayed away from the hobby completely. I know many people who have also just stopped playing the game all together.

The only reason why I've managed to keep on the GW bandwagon is pretty much because of Black Library and the great work of a few Authors. Thats pretty much it. Sad thing is you can't really alienate yourself from GW completely if your a fan of purely the fluff because of the Codexes. You just can't do it. Those things are lethal for fluff.

And come on! Your making it sound like this has only been happening for a couple years. Its been happening ever since I joined the hobby... back in the day.. till. Those fuckers need to fix something or either A) it goes down the drain as soon as another depression hits, or B) the fluff and coolness of warhammer is slowly changed to childish bullshit where GW sells itself out to younger fans just to preserve itself.

 

@Scathainn

I really like how you complain about the complainers...then go ahead and complain some more. You also seem to be oblivious to one of the larger concerns that the player base is having by saying,

Boo fuckidy hoo, just buy from a third party that sells GW for cheap (I recommend darksphere.co.uk personally).

Ya thanks for being completely unhelpful by throwing more gasoline on the fire and offering no viable solution besides quitting, which I already have. If you really want to set an example, than just be calm and present a sound argument.

Also, why is it that everyone is talking about the expense being the sole reason people are leaving? MetalHandkerchief has many points, most of which I agree with, that are why I'm leaving GW. Beyond that however is again the fact that for many this is more than just a complete price/logic issue. People become highly involved in their hobbies and when a company makes all these changes it betrays the loyalty that the player base has for the company.

 

@Scathainn

I really like how you complain about the complainers...then go ahead and complain some more. You also seem to be oblivious to one of the larger concerns that the player base is having by saying,

Ya thanks for being completely unhelpful by throwing more gasoline on the fire and offering no viable solution besides quitting, which I already have. If you really want to set an example, than just be calm and present a sound argument.

Also, why is it that everyone is talking about the expense being the sole reason people are leaving? MetalHandkerchief has many points, most of which I agree with, that are why I'm leaving GW. Beyond that however is again the fact that for many this is more than just a complete price/logic issue. People become highly involved in their hobbies and when a company makes all these changes it betrays the loyalty that the player base has for the company.

If you have quit, Why are you on a warhammer Forum?

 

@MetalHandkerChief Re: Black Library

You say that Black Library refuse to publish any books that aren't about imperium or chaos? I refer you to the book "Path of the Warrior", where the main character is an eldar, and chronicles the path of his journey from artist to aspect warrior. No chaos or imperial there i think you'll find. I will concede that the book isn't actually very good, but that stems more from the difficulty in making an alien race accessible to Human mentality, while retaining the otherworldliness of a race that has no comparisons among our kind. Put simply, imperial and chaos books sell well because humans can relate to them. Alien books do not sell well, because they are more difficult to emphasise with.

 

Hmm, well Fire Warrior was alright. The game turned out shit though. Maybe it's the Silmarillion syndrome playing into the Path of the Warrior book. I haven't read PotW, might give it a look. God Silmarillion was hard to wrap one's head around at age 12. Elven god hymns and whatnot :laugh:

 

What i do is buy everything from ebay. Everything. Even paints if i can get them, screw GW. I have been into a GW 3 times. Once, the guy tried to sell me marines. The second time, the guy tried to tell me i needed bout 5000000 paints for altansar guardians. I can understand that. The 3rd time i bought a battleforce. The guy probably recognised me and just didnt help that time.
Dont like the marine bias, the fact my army will be the next dark eldar and will probably get a new codex in 7th edition while my rules lawyer friend gloats about his bloody marines, and the other friend pretending to feel my pain while he puts mephiston with ws 10, s 10, 32457902 attacks etc. near my precious striking scorpions or fire dragons. This is the only reason i play chaos, so i can be competitive when necessary.
If GW promoted other races more, such as IG, Eldar, Dark eldar etc. maybe people would play them more.
I dont have a problem with the books
I think there should be a Necromunda style game for say, 50k, with the factions being like, order and disorder. Eg. Eldar minority, Tau and Imperium vs Chaos Minority, necrons, nids. something like that

 

I think there should be a Necromunda style game for say, 50k, with the factions being like, order and disorder. Eg. Eldar minority, Tau and Imperium vs Chaos Minority, necrons, nids. something like that

I am actually working on something like this right now. I'm tired of watching kids leave the hobby because they don't have 300 shmuckers hard cash to spend right when they start. Also I was too late to join my store's Mordheim campaign so...

Also I was really inspired by path of the warrior. It would be interesting to play out the progress of a guardian to aspect warrior and then to exarch or warlock within the warband. Or the ritual duels to draw more warriors to an exarch.

 

It was the last straw. I could deal with the price rises and the resin, but I refuse to pay 2x the UK/US price for absolutely no reason.

 

i have to agree that the prices are outrageous. i live in the U.K where they're cheapest and i haven't purchased anything major in 3 years. must be hell for those really involved

 

If I'm tired of constant price rises, I stop BUYING the stuff. I don't have to stop PLAYING (rules and models don't suddenly stop working if you stop buying more). It's not a strictly pay-to-play dealio.
It's perfectly possible to play the game with models sourced from somewhere else (unless you like vampire or werewolf/viking marines, in which case Twilight might suit better) - you don't HAVE to use their product to play THEIR game (unless you are playing in THEIR stores, in which case, you're already damned.).

They are no more evil than Apple or Sony. GW have never destroyed one of their products that I purchased because I answered "NO" to one of their T&C (Are you going to play 40k with these models? No. *fump* lump of melted plastic.) - unlike the aforementioned fruit company.

[Not accepting the iTuNeS T&C will kill the mbs on your IpOd and otherwise brick it, killing it forever.]

 

Exactly my feelings, though i imagine many of the "quitters" are just gonna carry on in the hobby anyway and will end up paying the increase despite protesting on here or elsewhere.

But as chrome and many others have said "why quit?" thats like saying "im quitting watching my dvds because Amazon have done X" If prices have gone up you just have to either get proactive and look for bargains elsewhere or spread your spend out over a longer period to complete your collection.

 

The only thing I would really like to see is Games Workshop go the way of Wizards of the Coast (Magic: the Gathering) in regards to thier business model. WotC had stores imbedded in malls across the world to promote thier product, which had to compete with other independent businesses. Then came the advent of the Internet Retailer like Star City Games (biggest independent MtG vendor/tournament host) which could severly undercut WotC store's profits. What did they do, became a strict "distributor only" to all independent stores. They now could set prices at whatever they wanted for retailers, no longer had to compete with profits made directly of the consumer, and no longer had to deal with the overhead of brick and mortar stores. In return, they pulled through some of the toughest economic times for hobby games and now boast the best sales among all TCGs retailers in the world.

If GW would go to "distribution only" they would no longer be constrained by prices that also support their brick and mortar stores, no longer need to embargo outside companies, and no longer need to sell directly from thier internet or brick and mortar stores. In the end, prices go down for consumers and independent stores get more opportunity for revenue, with local game stores seeing increased activity.

 

I would agree with this idea with one small addition. I think large "battle Bunker" locations in major areas should be kept. This allows them to have representation in certain areas and large gaming venues. Otherwise I think you are right on. I never enjoyed gaming in GW shops because they are usually small and have "HIGH" pressure sale associates.


Doc

Yep, completely agree. WotC also maintains it Pro Tour and Grand Prix circut, which are major metro area tournaments with huge support from both regional vendors and WotC itself. GW could easily do this with its "Battle Bunkers" and through Independent Retailers, which not only promotes the hobby, but generates free advertisements via the Independent Retailers involved in hosting the events.

Winning... duh :goodpost:.


GW suks, everything its been doing RECENTLY Suks.

 

I would agree with this idea with one small addition. I think large "battle Bunker" locations in major areas should be kept. This allows them to have representation in certain areas and large gaming venues. Otherwise I think you are right on. I never enjoyed gaming in GW shops because they are usually small and have "HIGH" pressure sale associates.


Doc

 

I would agree with this idea with one small addition. I think large "battle Bunker" locations in major areas should be kept. This allows them to have representation in certain areas and large gaming venues. Otherwise I think you are right on. I never enjoyed gaming in GW shops because they are usually small and have "HIGH" pressure sale associates.


Doc

Yep, completely agree. WotC also maintains it Pro Tour and Grand Prix circut, which are major metro area tournaments with huge support from both regional vendors and WotC itself. GW could easily do this with its "Battle Bunkers" and through Independent Retailers, which not only promotes the hobby, but generates free advertisements via the Independent Retailers involved in hosting the events.

 

Well SlamHammer you have hit the nail on the head. I feel that the plan you detailed with my small input would be win win for everyone. 1. GW would decrease overhead and increase profits. 2. Local brick and mortar stores would get all the local buisness allowing for successful small buisnesses 3. We win because they could make prices more competitvein regards to other companies. 4. more organized tourny's with cool prizr support.


Doc

 

I'm not blind to the irony that I'm bitching about people bitching.

But at this point it's really getting out of hand.

 

I like both the background and the game of both 40K and Fantasy Battle; I like them enough that GW is a significant proportion of my non-essential spending in the last year.

I would love for product to be cheaper in the UK; however, I own a lot of product already, so - unless I suddenly decide to start a completely new army - I can buy as much as I can afford without suffering.

It would be great if everything was updated in a single pass, with regular updates; however, I care about having fun a lot more than I care about winning so a perfectly balanced system is a luxury.

I am not an economist, so have no strong stance on closing off certain points of sale.

So - whilst I have no real issue with people objecting to things GW do - I have no real problem with GW myself.

 

GW aren't bad. In terms of the rulesets these are quite well done, all they need is to be more precise and clearer with the writing, the mechanics of Fantasy are excellent and solid enough in 40k. Both are very well balanced as well considering the massive numbers of variables. If PP had to deal with a system of the size and complexity of Fantasy with all the variables and the dozens of armies and hundreds of units there are they would not be better than GW (if you believe they are better in the first place). The vast majority of the problems are self-inflicted by the players themselves.

The price rises aren't that bad anyway, you may have to buy things spread over a longer period of time but thats not gonna kill you. For the most part its people unable to handle thier own money that leaves them unable to spend as much as they want on GW.

 

Well they coud move to Ireland with our 12.5% corporation tax then i could work there without having to move countries and i could sort out all these problems by drop-kicking mark wells in the teeth. :biggrin:

 

Ultimately, the "buy it online" creed is likely the culprit of our current plight. I'm guilty of it myself, alot actually. But in the end it all goes back to not supporting FLGS's. An FLGS will give you a 10%-20% in-store discount.....yet people STILL shop online because they can get 10%-20% off TAX FREE. This way Local Business doesn't get your dollar (or equiv.), nor does the state/province. You lose twice. Because now, not only do you not have a place to play 40k, your children are retarded to add insult to injury...Why? Because you bought that last box of Space Wolves off of Ebay.

Here is my understanding of how Games Workshop handles biz. GW makes their models, pack them, and distributes them to all of their own GW Stores, as well as Independent Hobby Stores, and Online Distributors (competitors). Now, GW net profit off of sales inside their stores are great, they get the models the cheapest of anyone, so there is good money there....but they can't make money if they can't sell product the because the online distributors they recently sold to has been undercutting them on price.

So I suggest, if GW would like to increase their profits AND keep player base (price hike gripe). Increase the price per unit to all Online Retailers. The OR's move more than enough product due to the modern geeks' laziness and social fears of actually leaving the house. ANYTHING to promote buying at the store level, if they can achieve that, would only help the game itself.

 

You're forgetting that the vast majority of GW customers don't have a nearby store. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

Could you imagine a PP retail store? No, and they don't need one because between local games stores and the internet they get sales and ads. When games workshop began the internet wasn't what it is today so they needed the public face to sell and poplularize their product. That really isn't needed anymore. So they could cut their overhead by doing away with 90% of their stores and letting local hobby stores handel the brick and mortar buisness.

Doc

 

Those poor puppies and seals. I`ll spare you the fate of the kittens though...

 

I was simply asking why he chose to come onto the 40K section, Why is he here? Just to complain? If so he should stick to the Warmachine or the sections that he currently plays or takes an interest in. I have nothing against him, I'm just tired of people moaning constantly. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted me, or if I was unclear on my point.

 

If so he should stick to the Warmachine or the sections that he currently plays or takes an interest in. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted me, or if I was unclear on my point.

One: He, and everyone, has the right to voice their opinions wherever they want, as long as it conforms to the rules.

Two: T's alright. :grin:

 

When they announce a price hike, I get a tad upset, and then I feel nothing. Is that normal? Everyone seems so gunhoe about quitting over price hikes/embargoes/etc. While I see the anger is well placed in the Down Under, everything else seems pretty negligible. If we got everything we wanted (rules support, better codices, and the like) they would be forced to raise prices even higher. I could be completely making that up too - I did fail my economics class the first time around.

What bothers me the most is that their prices will likely never go down.