Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
ROCK HARD TANKS
"Rock Hard Tanks
In Warhammer 40,000, tanks are more resilient than ever before. They can also fire more of their weapons more of the time - and if shooting doesn't kill your foes, then you can drive into - and through - densely packed enemy units. Browse through our selection of Rock Hard Tanks - don't forget, you can add allied tanks to your army."
So this is on the title of the GW web page right now. What are the team over at GW smoking? Do they not realized that tanks are easier to destroy now with Hull Points added to the game and cover saves reduced? Or am I missing something here... I know it's easier to get a cover save, but obscured vehicles only get a 5+? Not to mention you can no longer assault from most vehicles, so many players have been talking about completely shelving or minimizing their tanks in their lists.


Does anyone else get the feeling that the GW dev team seems to keep getting more out of touch with the realities of game play and mechanics outside their play in the GW studio?

Also the choice of including some tanks and not others is odd. No SM Rhino, No SoB Vehicles?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
Its just a way to sell tanks i guess. "buy these expensive tanks that are now much easier to destroy" is hardly a selling headline no?

On a side note, i've completely ditched all vehicles and have had a 100% infantry army from my 2nd game onwards and have won every game. Watching my dev squads rip through tanks is quite enjoyable actually :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,182 Posts
I think hull points make tanks useful for longer as they can fire when glanced. Hull points just mean you can only get glanced/penetrated so many times before becoming a wreck.

Its fair that once you have the right fire power in the right place lighter tanks are in trouble. But AP 13 and 14 vehicles are still tough, with Landraiders and monoliths being as hard as ever with 4 hull points and 14 all round armour they are resiliant to most attacks (except melta. lance and heavy ordenance).

I have been finding that close combat is actually the best way to blow up vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,271 Posts
Fortunately the game stays largely unchanged for my vehicles, for better or for worse. I still need ghost arks for their almighty replenishing powers. Surprisingly, I have found the changes to glancing make my vehicles more durable, especially on said ghost arks when I roll an unlucky 1. Before, I had to sweat, because if I rolled a 5, the transport wrecked, and if I rolled a four, it was immobilized, making it useless. My Annihilation barges feel the same way against stuff that can't torrent S7+ and instead just have to pluck at it.

Of course almost all my vehicles are AV13/14, and the ones that aren't are flyers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
951 Posts
So this is on the title of the GW web page right now. What are the team over at GW smoking?
I'd say they're probably on weed, taking lsd, that kind of thing. It would be a funny conversation in the building though. "Is that smoke coming from the marketing team's room?" "The got the weed out again, haven't they?"

Anyway, let's stop waxing lyrical about drugs and get to business: GW are going crazy. But I can see where they're coming from, an unmodified penning hit now needs a 6 to 1-shot vehicles and glances now only strip HP. But conversely, nothing can survive 3 or 4 glances/pens unlike before. And little vehicles can only take 2 such hits before they go down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
So this is on the title of the GW web page right now. What are the team over at GW smoking? Do they not realized that tanks are easier to destroy now with Hull Points added to the game and cover saves reduced? Or am I missing something here... I know it's easier to get a cover save, but obscured vehicles only get a 5+? Not to mention you can no longer assault from most vehicles, so many players have been talking about completely shelving or minimizing their tanks in their lists.

Does anyone else get the feeling that the GW dev team seems to keep getting more out of touch with the realities of game play and mechanics outside their play in the GW studio?
It's nothing to do with the game itself. It's just something they felt like pushing this month, with no relevance to anything else. The sales people will have said "Let's drive sales of £40+ tanks by 5% this month" with no input from anyone else, let alone the design studio.

Also the choice of including some tanks and not others is odd. No SM Rhino, No SoB Vehicles?
How many AV13-14 Vehicles do Sisters have? 1. Is a Rhino considered "rock hard"? No, not really. That might explain why they're not there and the Land Raider is. Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,407 Posts
I think hull points make tanks useful for longer as they can fire when glanced. Hull points just mean you can only get glanced/penetrated so many times before becoming a wreck.

Its fair that once you have the right fire power in the right place lighter tanks are in trouble. But AP 13 and 14 vehicles are still tough, with Landraiders and monoliths being as hard as ever with 4 hull points and 14 all round armour they are resiliant to most attacks (except melta. lance and heavy ordenance).

I have been finding that close combat is actually the best way to blow up vehicles.
This pretty much:goodpost:

Transports you need to spam more than ever so some survive long enough to get where you want them, but other than that 6th ed has made tanks more shooty and mobile, but less survivable.

I can live with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
I believe the changes have made light vehicles (AV10-12) less durable and heavy vehicles (AV13-14) more durable. Those that are displayed at the GW website are all AV12-14 so in the abcense of AV12 they would be right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,271 Posts
Heavier vehicles had to worry a lot about being glanced because the high-strength weaponry doesn't exist in the abundance required to reliably penetrate. A S8 AP1 weapon could actually wreck an AV14 vehicle with one shot, given some lucky rolls. Glances are still dangerous but in a different way. Where before, the enemy needed more glances (Lets see a show of hands, who here wrecked a monolith/land raider with 4 glances? No one?) each glance was individually much more dangerous as it could immobilize the vehicle, blow a weapon off, or stop the vehicle from shooting or moving for a turn. Stunlocking a heavy vehicle was one of the best ways to make it less effective, now thats much more difficult.
 

·
nice boy, daft though !
Joined
·
10,212 Posts
I believe the changes have made light vehicles (AV10-12) less durable and heavy vehicles (AV13-14) more durable. Those that are displayed at the GW website are all AV12-14 so in the abcense of AV12 they would be right.
which is really how it should be, an apc is a mode of transport and its the contents that should be important in game terms, where as a tank is a mobile heavy weapon platform and should be able to soak up more damage before it wrecks.

But all in all its just some words designed to shift some tank models, its no different than saying"death from above" for flyers or any other slogan used to shift models, you either buy into it or you dont, marketing isnt about telling the truth its about skewing it or putting a spin on things to make someone think they need what your selling and part with the cash. There is a whole science to manipulating customers in retail and sales and its quite interesting to see it in action, its one of those silly things that you dont know is happening to you until someone explains to you how and why it works.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,717 Posts
In the short term tanks have become more resistant and reliable. It's over the course of the game that they've become more fragile.

There's now far less chance of a single shot taking out your tank; glances don't roll on the damage table and one needs to get through all the hull points. On average it will consistently take a dedicated amount of shooting to remove or neutralise's a vehicle.

Stun-locking is far less viable now, with glances no longer rolling on the table and negating your ability to shoot. Your tanks shooting will be more reliable and effective.

Long term however they are more susceptible to damage; it being a matter of chipping hull points off. This is as it should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I know it's just marketing, but itms bad marketing. But hey, I could be wrong, it's not like the majoriity of GW stores have closed or anything...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
I know it's easier to get a cover save, but obscured vehicles only get a 5+?
A small quibble but its 4 + for 25 % obscured and then a 3 + if you manage to hide 75 % or so. At least thats how it looks from the pictures on the vehicle cover page, which i don't remember the page number.
 

·
Grey Knight Converter
Joined
·
2,169 Posts
The new rules have made shooty tanks better for the most part. Two glances still mean two turns of shooting with my exorcist instead of just sitting there so it can be shot at again. I found in most of the games I played in 5th, my Exorcists were dead by turn 5 and if it got glanced a few times I lost one to two turns of shooting. In the new edition I find that my tanks die at around the same rate, but I get the extra turns of shooting in. So I am happy with how that worked out, transports on the other hand, those are taking a beating.
 

·
Thordis
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
The new rules have made shooty tanks better for the most part. Two glances still mean two turns of shooting with my exorcist instead of just sitting there so it can be shot at again. I found in most of the games I played in 5th. My Exorcists were dead by turn 5 and if it got glanced a few times I lost one to two turns of shooting. In the new edition I find that my tanks die at around the same rate, but I get the extra turns of shooting in. So I am happy with how that worked out, transports on the other hand, those are taking a beating.
I Agree with that you're high priory vehicle units have a bigger chance to get a couple of turns of shooting instead of being glanced and stunnd/whatever after the enemies first shooting phase
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
A small quibble but its 4 + for 25 % obscured and then a 3 + if you manage to hide 75 % or so. At least thats how it looks from the pictures on the vehicle cover page, which i don't remember the page number.
I was thinking smoke but haven't been with the new rules -that- long.

Was hoping to at least see an Excorcist on the list of "tanks".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
Has anyone reported GW to trading standards yet? False advertising is an offence, and they could be forced to correct the text and make an apology...
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top