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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A part of being sucessful in 40k is predicting your metagame, so with the gt approaching what are people predictions for this year?

I think lash chaos will feature heavily with them taking up the slack left by the departure of iron warriors and other chaos variants.
Marines as always will i would think still be out in force, i think they are one of the most powerful lists around and mech, infantry and drop lists can all have powerful builds. Will be interesting to see what happens with DA and BA lists. There were alot of BA last year and i can't see it changing as the DC are absolute beasts. Finding the right amount of firepower to back them up is where the skill will come in i think
tau and eldar. Both finese armies with high potential, i think theres likely to be a fair number.
Nidzilla: the list seems to get more popular with time, although i think they can be easy to tailor against, in the GT i can see them doing well where people don't have the luxury to do so. I think a mixed nid list is best with either hvy MC or Hvy hoard flavouring with enough of the other to worry any army. Could be a good contender.

Now there are infinate possibilties as to what you could face, but i'd say that these are the templates that are likely to come up again and again, and that if you bear them in mind when making your army and playtesting then you should be doing well.
 

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In order of most popular i would think:

Marines: never ending tide of them. I will expect lots of assault cannons and lots of double plasma and predators etc.

Chaos: Dual lash and 9 oblits would be the obvious thing and what i expect.

Eldar: triple falcon/fire prism with harlie support (thanks dave!)

Tau: 6 FWs with deckchairs and scorecards and lots of crisis.


And then usual smatterrings of everything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
its hard to believe that people dont rate the firewarrior more highly, i played this guy once who disembarked them from a devilfish and assaulted my bloodthirster. cock ;)
 

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Fallen Angel said:
In order of most popular i would think:

Marines: never ending tide of them. I will expect lots of assault cannons and lots of double plasma and predators etc.

Chaos: Dual lash and 9 oblits would be the obvious thing and what i expect.

Eldar: triple falcon/fire prism with harlie support (thanks dave!)

Tau: 6 FWs with deckchairs and scorecards and lots of crisis.


And then usual smatterrings of everything else.
Thats what I would have said, marines are the ever popular army and can produce a selection of competitive builds. With chaos you will probably see any iron warrior armies that couldn't make it to heat 1 will have converted to the double lash army. Finally Eldar and Tau will be popular due to all the advantages skimmers have over regular tanks.
 

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Eldar: triple falcon/fire prism with harlie support (thanks dave!)
Hey, my list pales into comparison compared to some of the one-trick pony jobs doing the rounds at the moment, I just got a hard list together earlier than everyone else! There's plenty more 'optimal' out there, especially those sticking Vectored Engines on their Falcons and reducing the troops to min. bikes to get a Farseer or something in there.

I also agree with Fallen Angel, that'll be the general metagame throughout the tables. However the metagame for those intending to qualify (ie. on the top 1/3 of the tables) may be somewhat less skewed.

For your average marine player(most common opponent)/first timer, those 3 Falcons with 12 harlequins and 6 Dragons lists of yawn may prove mightily difficult to avoid getting bent over by. Same with a mech Tau army and the harder marine builds. On the top tables I expect a closer ratio with a mix of Eldar, Tau, marines and Chaos with the odd necron/horde player who'll prove to be rock to players who've overcompensated for MEQ's scissors.

A lot of players know how to build for the usual marines and Tau that have been doing the rounds for a year or two. New Eldar will also have been considered for those who hit the tournament circuit in between GT's and who've been practicing against them (witness the Tau support section's change from 2 rail and Broadsides to ionhead, railhead and broadsides).

Chaos I think will be a big spanner in the works for quite a few players, as it won't be possible to test against all the possible sneaky tricks and builds. They'll be at the same stage as Eldar last year, varied builds and somewhat of an unknown quantity before the interweb irons out the wrinkles and everyone gets used to things.
 

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Is the consensus that DA and BA are both unplayable in a competetive context, and therefore won't figure? Or are they just another feature of the thousands of possible marine variants?

:cyclops:
 

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i see tonnes of Black Templar around but if you are facing Tau i can bet you 95% of the time he will take a completely mechanized army so load up on those anti tanky weapons because the whole point of Mech Tau is to swamp your opponent's abilities to deal with you.

Space Marines-
- the Usual Rhino rush
- Ultramarines (seriously added up this chapter numbers in the Billions of troops) with Tyrannic war veterans simply for the Hellfire round
- Expect LOTS of Assault cannons since the Rending rule came out
- Las Plas combos on the Tac and Dev squads

Eldar
-Harlequins
-Meatshielding Guardians for nasty Banshees Fleet
-Triple Fire prisms

Dark Eldar
-Deep striking scourges with Webway protals

Necrons
-though its rare watch for the Triple Monolith Phalanx as it is easier to build now with that new Necron box

Orks
-Rokkit spam
-Big shoota Spam

CSM
-already mentioned

Imperial Guard
-dont bother, there are very few serious players
 

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What you're more likely to see amongst others is:

SM:

All pod.
3-3-3 (preds, speeders, dreads/termies with las/plas support)
5-6 Dreads
6 Speeders, 3 preds, las/plas, termies?
BA

Tau:

Mech; Crisis-filled with railheads

Eldar:

Either the dreaded 3-Falcon, 3 Harlie list,
Falcon, 2 prisms+extras
Maybe some people with foot-sloggers

Necrons:

Destroyer spam
2 Monolith warrior spam
Warrior spam with C'tan

Guard:

All drop
3 russ, troop gunline
All-infantry horde

Chaos:

Anyone's guess but lots of Lash princes, 1K sons, Plague marines and oblits I'm thinking.

DE:

Lelith portal army

Orks:

Rokkit spam


Basically, pick a netlist and you'll find some people playing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't really sit with the idea of the netlist, i mean sure it kinda is true, but the muppets who think copy pasting someone elses idea of a list and using that are usually really easy to beat. 2 years ago i faced 3 almost identical ultwe lists in the heats that were a copy of the previous years winnner and i massacred all three. they seemed to think the list along would win them games and 2 of them i think were actually really surprised that i beat them and didn't have a clue what went wrong.
Now when it comes to people who know what there doing, and have come up with similar lists individually, because there gaming and there experiences have told them that would be a powerful list then its a whole different thing.

Another example at last years finals jez faced a 3 monolith list with his BA and managed a win. i finsihed my game pretty early so what the last 1/2 hour or so and it was clear the guy didn't really know what he was doing.....he didn't even know his own armies rules very well. Now against some he would have owned, just because of the synergy of the army he was using and that some armies would struggle to deal with 1 monolith let alone 3. with jez's list it was an uphill struggle but he got the win.
 

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I think hoard armies could do well in the right hands. Not sure if i can be arsed to paint up lots of guys though, even with 3 colours its too much hassle.
 

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Too_hot_to_handle said:
I think hoard armies could do well in the right hands.
Yes they do :D

Myself and even more so, spikeydave have proved thier worth.
 

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I don't really sit with the idea of the netlist, i mean sure it kinda is true, but the muppets who think copy pasting someone elses idea of a list and using that are usually really easy to beat.
Indeed, I didn't say that they'd be any good just that you'll see lots of them. I'm sure many of us here have beaten guys with netlists who didn't know how to handle them in a way to justify why they're seen as so dangerous. I'm more worried about coming up against an army style that I haven't played before than seeing a netlist. It can go one of two ways:

1. Its written by someone who uses armies with any old stuff in to beat their mates who aren't very good, usually on planet bowling ball. See the millions of people who talk about Fire Warrior gunlines being unbeatable or that speeders are deadly vs. Tau and Eldar. Usually they're in for a rude awakening first time they come up against someone who knows what they're doing.

2. They have an original list that they've carefully honed to suit their style and is more than the sum of its parts in their hands. These ones are dangerous as they know their tricks, you don't.

Still be millions of marines there regardless. :D
 

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I agree with Fallen Angel and Anathema mainly. Basically:

SM:

Pods.
Tornado spam
Las/plas. Preds...etc

CSM
For heat 1ers, IW.
For heat 2 and 3 anyones guess sort of. Dual Lash Prince and a fair few oblits is the only sureity.

Eldar
3 grav tanks.
Eldrad and co.

Dark Eldar

Lelith portal army.
Dark Lance spam. 3 ravagers etc..

Orks

lol.

Tyranids

Nidzilla.
The odd traditional swarm army.

Necrons
Destroyer spam
Monolith spam
C'tan and co.

Tau
Crisis spam.
3 hammerheads.
2 hammerheads, Broadsides + crisis.

Inquisition.

lol.

Guard.

mech.
all drop (scaaarrrryyyy)
typical gunline.

I agree that net lists on their own just aren't scary. However, guys that have practiced and tweaked their list based on their experiences with a solid base are very dangerous. You can always tell the net listers that dont know what they are doing compared to the veterans.

Basically the way lists should be made for me is. You have to first and foremost have a bit of speed. Thats what 4th ed is imo. Second you must be able to deal with MEQ because they are simply the most common. The next priority is AT both AV12- and AV13+. Then you need to have a bit of a combat edge just in case or too harass the enemy. You then just have to have a good hard look and think...what am i scared of? And then try and cover all the less common bases as best you can. Another very important point is you have to analyse how you would do against an army similar to yourself. This is because it is unlikely that you are the only person to have the style of army that you have chosen. So you also need to try and give yourself an edge against armies similar to your own. Then it's time to get some games in and tweak where neccessary.
 

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Unsubstatiated spout-off warning...

The metagame is different for the heats compared to the final. The heats reflect the wider gaming community more closely. About 1/2 the lists (guess) are actual tournament lists, rather than 'random' lists. Only 1/2 of those know how to use them. This accounts for most of the qualifiers.

Remaining (gaming) qualifers are people who know what they are doing with nonstandard lists and people with any list that got lucky.

I think that a general anti-meq list will be the best thing for the heats. You need the anti skimmer stuff for the final.

These considerations are what makes the horde list a viable choice as no-one is really prepared for them.

That's my thoughts anyway.
 

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jigplums said:
its hard to believe that people dont rate the firewarrior more highly, i played this guy once who disembarked them from a devilfish and assaulted my bloodthirster. cock ;)
And then the chaos player had the audacity to mark the tau player down as a tosser on the scoresheet - what a cock he is!

I'll have you know that my FWs are now my best tank hunters in my army nowadays - beware if i play you again :lol:


Orks are quite dangerous as no one expects them. They can pretty scarily outshoot a lot of opponents which most people dont expect.

As far as planning what to play, well i'd like to think my list is fairly balanced to take on all comers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As far as planning what to play, well i'd like to think my list is fairly balanced to take on all comers.
well yeah, you've got your triple treat firewarriors, they can kill troops, hunt tanks, or assault bloodthirsters :)
 

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The metagame is different for the heats compared to the final. The heats reflect the wider gaming community more closely. About 1/2 the lists (guess) are actual tournament lists, rather than 'random' lists. Only 1/2 of those know how to use them. This accounts for most of the qualifiers.
I agree, however the 'random lists' are quite often a bit ineffective or are played with players that are not particularly good so i don't tend to worry about them. It is the tournament lists and tournament standard players that are worth predicting.

I think that a general anti-meq list will be the best thing for the heats. You need the anti skimmer stuff for the final.
Really? I think anti-skimmer is incredibly important for the heats. Mech eldar will be in numerous at the heats based on the lists floating around. Hell, i suppose i'm one of them. Landspeeders will also be around as well. It's neccessary to be able to take alot of them down because their firepower is very nasty. Anti-meq is obviously priority number 1 but i would definitly say anti-skimmer is priority number 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Last year me and jezlad obsessed with skimmer lists, both seeing them as a big threat for us to deal with. As it was for us at least it was largely unfounded, and we didn't face any heavy skimmer lists, and the ones we did face we did pretty well against. Landspeeders dont really fall into the same catagory, as there low armour means even with glancing hits they will go down. its more the hammerheads, falcons and fireprisms that need to be dealt with.
All i really needed was some anti siren as i lost one drew one vs slannesh at the finals and got 4 wins. with the heats i used drop spacewolves, which my main let downs were my own mistakes and non-familiarity with the list rather than the list itself.
 

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Hm, I know what you mean. At the heat last year I never actuallly fought an SM player would you believe! However, that being said, I would say that avoiding the skimmers from both Eldar and Tau was simply lucky rather than a misjudgment of what would be at the GT.

All i really needed was some anti siren as i lost one drew one vs slannesh at the finals and got 4 wins. with the heats i used drop spacewolves, which my main let downs were my own mistakes and non-familiarity with the list rather than the list itself.
ooo that's interesting! My mate uses drop space wolves. As you seemed to do fairly well with them, care to post your list?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
from memory

Runepriest on bike, chooser of the slain, wolf tooth necklace, frostweapon, bolt pistol frags[maybe some other stuff]

3 x 8 grey hunters 2 powerfists 2 plasma pistol 1 meltagun drop pod

Venerable dred ac, flamer, extra armour, smokes drop pod

Dred, ac flamer, ea, smokes, drop pod

2 x landspeeder
 
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