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Discussion Starter #1
Recent playesting with the BA's has gone fairly well although I still think they'll struggle at the top level so for painting motivation If nothing else I'm going to go with the trixie Eldar.
I'm still slightly unsure about the DA's, although I LOVE the models their abilities are a bit untested on the meta front so we'll have to see how the testing go's..
I'm thinking that Libbies with fear and fury shouldn't cause the list any serious problems with the list mostly mounted up which means having the Autarch In for reserve rolls. With his wargear he'll provide extra AT, cheaky combat power and the ability to speed or slow reserves. Hopefullt his CC abilities should also be useful helping out the DA's and Dragons should they fluff their dice and get caught out.
All comments welcome,
Cheers,
LongBeard

Autarch: Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mandi-Blasters
(140pts)

TROOPS
10 x Dire Avengers
Exarch: Extra Catapult, Bladestorm, Defend
Waveserpant: T-L Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(317pts)

TROOPS
3 x Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

ELITES
8 x Fire Dragons
Waveserpant: T-L Shuriken Cannons, Extra Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(268pts)

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses, Shadowseer
(162pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Shuriken Cannons x 2, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Holofield
(195pts)

(1498pts)
 

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I think this seems to be the "template" list at the moment, and whenever i see eldar lists around they all seem to have the key elements in this list. I think it definately has potental although i would be worried that if you don't get first turn and its not escalation you could have some trouble
 

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the only big glaring thing i see is the squad of 3 guardian jetbikes... i'd say lose 2 dragons for a 4th bike simply to optimise it's scoring unit potential...
sure it's one less model overall, but it can really save your hide when your bikes only suffer 2 casulties!

cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
With regards to the Jetbikes their main Job will be to grab objectives last turn while pulling cheeky JSJ moves with the Shuriken Cannon, by adding an extra bike their footprint grows Increasing their chances of getting shot and not really Increasing their damage output.
I think by dropping two dragons they lose their ability to take on anything but a single tank, with 8 I should be able to take on MC's, DP's and small MEQ squads without any problems. I've also decided to drop defend for the Dragons breath and crack shot powers for the Exarch, should provide the dragons with greater anti-Infantry power while also having the ability to fry all those Pathfinders and Kroot! :twisted:
I think the main weakness with the list will be the non escalation games, hopefully I'll be playing a suitable opponent with minimum AT and LOADS of terrain! :wink:

Autarch: Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mandi-Blasters
(140pts)

TROOPS
10 x Dire Avengers
Exarch: Extra Catapult, Bladestorm
Waveserpant: T-L Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(302pts)

TROOPS
3 x Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

ELITES
8 x Fire Dragons
Exarch: Dragons Breath, Crack Shot
Waveserpant: T-L Shuriken Cannons, Extra Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(285pts)

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses, Shadowseer
(162pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Shuriken Cannons x 2, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Holofield
(195pts)

(1500pts)
 

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i cant help wonder what would happen if you faced a horde nid army :twisted: i dont play them though :cyclops:
 

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131 Posts
Flamer, plasma missiles, 2 x AP4 pies, plenty of shuriken cannon shots and a bladestorm or two whilst the autarch assasinates all the synapse then chop up shot up squads with harlies.

Nid swarms are easy meat for this list.

I'd stick with the DAs mate, they've been doing wonders for me recently, you just need to learn the knack and have patience.

What will hurt this list is not getting the first turn in Gamma. 5 skimmer tanks is very hard to hide.
 

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think the main weakness with the list will be the non escalation games
This is one of very few weaknesses in your army. The problem is I think its quite a significant one. You will be very fortunate to be able to hide 5 grav tanks and if you lose firs turn you will get hit very hard and lose alot of vps.

I think its the DAs that have to go personally. You have alot of anti-GEQ fire without them and spending 300pts on that unit and the serpent really does seem the only glaring mistake with the list. Seeing as pathfinders would be alone in omega taking one squad is insufficient, I would take another jet bike unit for troops and then you have 230pts to spend on whatever nasties you want. I personally would take a farseer on bike. Give him runes of warding and you have a decent defence against enemy psykers (such as other eldar armies). If you make him a buffing unit he can be brilliantly useful for you. Regardless of what you give him you should also have points spare also so you could get close to getting a bit of a bodyguard for him.

Whatever you think of my alternatives, I honestly think that when you have 4 grav tanks already, there are better ways of spending 300pts.
 

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After playtesting my own eldar army I'm going to give a more elaborative review of your list.



Autarch: Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mandi-Blasters
(140pts)
Classic mech eldar mandatory hq. Can't fault this really. I assume you will have him with your jetbikes and provide some cheeky combat punch. +1 reserves makes him very useful.


3 x Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)
Although i used to simply take 2 squads of these because they are cheap. After a few games these guys are AMAZING! I would take 2 squads of them personally. They are brilliant at grabbing objectives and can often get a few cheeky side armour shots and pop some skimmers. I would take 2 squads personally.

(you already have my views on the DAs so i wont bother saying it again)



8 x Fire Dragons
Exarch: Dragons Breath, Crack Shot
Waveserpant: T-L Shuriken Cannons, Extra Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(285pts)
Nasty suqad. The dragons breath makes your squad very flexible and 8 fire dragons is alot of ap1! It does suffer from the complete reliance on the wave serpent however. If the serpent goes down your dragons are useless. However I think they are worth it simply because your army is otherwise quite short of low ap firepower.



6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses, Shadowseer
(162pts) Falcon: Shuriken Cannons x 2, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Holofield
(195pts)
The famous combination. Our heavy support choices differ simply on the fact that i have 2 of this combination and 1 prism and you have 2 prisms and 1 harly/falcon combo. No arguments here.

Prisms are of course perfectly viable also and you have the option to combine if needed which is a nasty prospect for anyone based on the threats of all your other units.

Basically it is formidable without a doubt. In omega no-one wants to see this army opposite them whether its at the GT or anywherelse. However in gamma against an army with lots of heavy weapons if you lose first turn you will get beat imo. 5 grav tanks is flat out impossible to hide (i have found it continuously difficult to hide 3!) and your army relies on 3 of them as transports so much that it cannot cope if people are getting 1st turn penetration on them.

If this is a GT army it is essential in my opinion to lose 1 of your grav tanks. Obviously i think it should be the DA squad that goes because i think the squads advantages are redundant based on everythingelse you have. You have a multitude of other options to choose from that are equally harsh. The other reason i think the DA should go which i haven't mentioned is the fact that as it stands your army has close to 500pts of non-scoring unit.

As a final conclusion, on paper this list looks nasty and harsh because every unit looks to pack a serious punch. However experienced players will punish its practical weaknesses.
 

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It is perfectly possible to deploy the Avengers on foot at the start of the game. Their Serpent is the most expendable as they aren't that hampered by a lack of transport.
 

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Do you think so? Would you walk 10 T3 models across a board infront of an army? Hiding 10 men is hard and range 18 is far from great. They are not a bad unit but their strength comes from being in a transport. They don't have the resiliance or the range to be survive on foot against firepower armies especially when you consider that that would be the only infantry unit walking forwards in the whole army so thats where every heavy bolter is pointing.

I don't have a problem particularly with dire avengers. In this army though what they have to offer seems redundant. The army has 7 shuri cannons the dragons breath and 2 pie plates already so what is the need for extra anti-GEQ?. Also when there are already 4 grav tanks in the army why add a unit with a transport? Maybe you are right anathema and that avengers can persevere on foot but that doesnt make the 5th grav tank any better of a choice. If armour 12 vehicles are in the open and can get penetrated they are in trouble and to be honest there is no such thing as an 'expendable' grav tank. That wave serpent is 150pts of non-scoring unit and if its the least important it is the vehicle that will have the least/no cover. If you lose first turn (which in 3 gamma games is bound to happen once or possibly twice) that tank will die. So i will ask this: Is it a good decision to take a 150pt non-scoring tank when it will have the bottom priority of cover?
 

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I pretty much always deploy my mounted troops out of the tank in Gamma. At least they can then jump aboard if it survives. If not, they can start foot-slogging. The Avengers are better in a Serpent, but don't necessarily need it. If it goes down first turn, they can cope a hell of a lot better than any other serpent mounted Eldar unit, that was my point.

As to their usefulness, don't forget that those Dragons and Prisms are the main anti-tank in the army. They shouldn't be firing at infantry until the tanks are dead.
 

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I pretty much always deploy my mounted troops out of the tank in Gamma. At least they can then jump aboard if it survives. If not, they can start foot-slogging. The Avengers are better in a Serpent, but don't necessarily need it. If it goes down first turn, they can cope a hell of a lot better than any other serpent mounted Eldar unit, that was my point.
ahh ok i didn't realise that was what you meant. Eitherway hiding 10 dire avengers while keeping it within 2 of the access point is still quite hard. You risk going down to indirect fire also or just simply getting shot if people can get los of the avengers.

As to their usefulness, don't forget that those Dragons and Prisms are the main anti-tank in the army. They shouldn't be firing at infantry until the tanks are dead.
true, but that depends on what you fight against and of course what the prisms can see and whether the dragons can get in range. There are still better ways of spending the 300pts that the avengers/serpent take up. I like all the units in the army. However all units he has require terrain to hide behind turn 1 and there are simply too many of them to all get to hide. All of his units also total alot of points making the fact that they can't all get behind cover a bigger problem.

My alternative would be:

Shining spears. This is a decent unit for your autarch to go around with. Also in omega it reduces the chance of your autarch coming on and being the only thing on the board not under the protection of a vehicle. It also makes the spears and the autarch combined an effective unit killer. Throw in hit and run and you have a very harlequinesque unit. For your troop have another jetbike squad. I know it sounds like the jetbikes are nothing but a troop filler but they really are amazing. They have won me games.
 

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Eitherway hiding 10 dire avengers while keeping it within 2 of the access point is still quite hard.
Er, keeping them within 8" you mean? You can move, embark, then move the serpent. Hiding them out of sight within 12" shouldn't be that difficult. If there's indirect fire about it certainly won't be going for Avengers on turn 1, it'll be trying to pen the Falcon if the other player has any sense.
 

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oo. Must admit i didn't realise that you could move, embark then move the vehicle. But hiding them will still be hard. Everything in his army should be trying its utmost to be behind cover. 10 avengers is a large enough footprint to make this hard.

If there's indirect fire about it certainly won't be going for Avengers on turn 1, it'll be trying to pen the Falcon if the other player has any sense.
Only if that indirect fire is a battle/earthshaker cannon which are not the only indirect fire weapons in the game. Whirlwinds are common enough amoung space marine players and space marine players are more than common enough in tournaments. Things that dont require los as well such as fury of the ancients, smart missiles etc. There are plenty of weapons that can deal them damage.

Even if they hide successfully, that doesnt stop the serpent's fairly sure death and footslogging avengers dont cut it imo.
 

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I beg to differ. My avengers have a very impressive roll of achievement. Sometimes it's good to slog them and use the transport as a gunship, other times it's best to zoom, zoom, zoom around unleashing the bladestorm all over.

I really like avengers actually and rate them as one of the best troop choices out there.
 

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Dire Avengers definitely are up there as one of the best Troop choices in the game. Point for point, they're awfully hard to beat. The only thing that's more directly solid is a Space Marine, and that's only because they're T4. A squad of Avengers with an exarch with Bladestorm will make a mess of pretty much anything without an armor value, after all...
 

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My top 5 would be:

Kroot,
Space marines,
Necron warriors,
Dark Eldar warriors,
Dire Avengers.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the feedback guys! :eek:
Apologies, I've been playing my new BA's for a while now drifting over to the B+C and have sort of put the Eldar on the back burner (for now!)
Without really playtesting the list but listening to you lot and thinking how to hide five skimmers against the top players It does seem to be a pretty tough task. I'm by no means forgetting about the DA's but as an alternative I've been wracking my brain trying to work out how to spend the points wisely elsewhere while keeping an overall balance and have come up with the list below.
Have to admit It Is edgeing towards DakkaDaves successful Eldar list but with cheeky Jetbikes coming Into play for the extra mobility and the beefed up Dragons for the all-round duty I'm pretty confident It could mix It up with the top tier lists.
All commments welcome!
Thanks again for the feedback,
Matt (LongBeard)

Autarch: Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mandi-Blasters
(140pts)

TROOPS
3 x Jetbikes
Warlock: Jetbike, Destructor, Singing Spear
(124pts)

TROOPS
3 x Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

ELITES
8 x Fire Dragons
Exarch: Dragons Breath, Crack Shot
Waveserpant: T-L Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines
(285pts)

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses, Shadowseer
(162pts)

FAST ATTACK
8 x Warp Spiders
(176pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Holofield
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Shuriken Cannons x 2, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Holofield
(195pts)

(1498pts)
 
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