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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Brian Aderson has confirmed that there will be a 'GT house rules FAQ' again this season. A first draft will be published based upon a review of last seasons answers and any FAQ updates published in the interim. Brian said they will take questions at any time, but recommends we wait until a first draft is published.

To try and make the events team's life easier, and to try and ensure they don't get asked 'do terminators have terminator armour?' too many times, i suggest we start a process here, invite other players we know who GT to add to the discussion, and come up with a list we can send to him with no repetition and as much information as possible to provide an answer from.

I imagine this way we could help the events team out by answering some of the questions here ourselves (as Dave just did for nightfighting for example!) prior to getting the events team involved

I'd also suggest that, wherever possible, we cite relevent text (pgs nos, text if short) as it will make life much easier for whoever is answering them.

We have some obvious questions from the 'what to discuss prior to a game' thread, so I'll start with those. If anyone can supply any reference that we add as supporting documentation that would be useful. If you add questions to this thread I'll copy and paste them to the second post - and ask one of the mods to also keep an eye on it as well.

Once we have assembled a good body of text I will forward it to Brian for the event team's attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
GT FAQ QUESTION LIST
I will try and order these into some kind of themes once a list is established, if we have sufficient questions

First off, 95% of this is shamelessly stolen from the Adepticon FAQ and YakFAQ so credit where credit is due.

That said, both documents are very large and clearly too much to drop on the Events Team. I've therefore tried to preen as best possible. Any thoughts on what might be missing?


General Rules Clarifications


Movement
Q: Models with the fleet ability may move d6” instead of shooting. If a fleeing unit (or a Tyranid unit outside synapse range) chooses to fleet, can it move in any direction or must it follow the direction of its compulsory movement?



Cover
Q: Page 25 says: “Sometimes, a unit will only be partially in cover. . .If there are more models that can be hit in cover than there are outside it, then the unit may make Cover Saves for the entire unit.”
The rules, however, do not tell us what to do when a unit has models in different pieces cover with different cover saves. For example, say a unit of ten models has three models in a piece of 4+ save terrain, three more models in a piece of 5+ save terrain and four models out in the open. What cover save (if any) does this unit use?

If the whole unit is able to make cover saves, do casualties need to be taken from the models in cover if a cover save is taken?




Line of Sight
Q: Using actual line of sight, can you shoot at enemy units through the legs of a vehicle with a base such as a sentinel, dreadnought, or monstrous creature?


Q: Page 6 says: “Firstly, a model is considered to occupy the area of its base, so when measuring distances use the closest edge of the base as your reference point.” A Dreadnought is mounted on a large base. To the left and right of the Dreadnought, I can clearly see enemy models I wish to shoot, but in order to do so, line of sight must be drawn over the Dreadnought’s base. Can I do so?



Failed Saving Throws
Q: Page 24 seems to make a distinction between a model getting “no save at all” (from a weapon with an AP equal to, or lower than, its armor save), and a “failed save” (getting a saving throw roll, but then not making the needed roll). However, some pieces of wargear (Narthecium) and basic rules (“Instant Death!” on page 27) use the term “failed save”. Is a model getting “no save at all” the same thing as a “failed save”?




Multi-Wound models
Q: Regarding units with multi-wound models, the rules state: “you must remove whole multiple-Wound models from the unit as casualties where possible – wounds may not be ‘spread around’ to avoid removing models.” Regarding removing “whole” models, when a multiple-wound unit (that already contains a wounded model) suffers a wound that will cause instant death, is the owning player compelled to put it on an unwounded (whole?) model or can they choose to place it on the already wounded model?




Rapid Fire weapons
Q: The range of a rapid fire weapon is defined in its profile. However, page 28 states that Rapid Fire weapons can: “shoot twice at targets up to 12 [inches] away.” The word “target” in 40k means “target unit”, so if a model with a Rapid Fire weapon moves and fires at a target unit within 12”, up to what range can the defending player remove casualties from this weapon? At the “range” of the weapon (typically 24 or 30”), or is the 12” limitation the de facto “range” that turn?

Q: Page 28 states: “Models carrying rapid fire weapons that wish to charge into close combat in the Assault phase may not fire in the Shooting phase. . .” This means a model armed with a Rapid Fire weapon may not charge if it fires any type of weapon (such as with a secondary pistol). As long as it is carrying the Rapid Fire weapon it cannot then charge. This doesn’t seem correct. Should the rule actually state: “Models that shoot with rapid fire weapons may not charge into close combat on the same turn.”?


Q: Is a model that moved with a Rapid Fire weapon allowed to fire only once at a target within 12” instead of twice (say, to avoid “Gets Hot”)?


Q: If a model armed with a ‘gets hot’ rapid fire weapon shoots suffers multiple get hot results (e.g. shoots twice and rolls a 1 and a 2), does it make a single saving throw or one for each get hot result? If it makes multiple saving throws does it suffer one wound per failed save or one wound if any of the saves are failed. The rulebook only states a model can avoid ‘wounds’ by making saving throws.



The 1” rule
Q: Page 37 says: “You may not move models within 1 [inch] of enemy models from any unit they are not charging.” If two units are interspersed in a way that it is impossible to get into base contact with a model in either unit without coming within 1” of a model from the other unit (this is easily possible if all the models in both enemy units are in base contact with each other), can a single model or unit still initiate this charge?

e.g.

Unit 1: O, Unit 2: X

OOOOOOOOO
XXXXXXXXXX

The two friendly units are in base-to-base contact with one another.In this example, assaulting a model in unit 1 (O) would bring the assaulting model within 1" of a model in unit 2 (X), making the assault impossible by the rules as written. The result is a formation that cannot be legally assaulted, from any direction, by the current rules.


Vehicles and passengers
Q: When a vehicle transporting a unit is blown up it becomes a wreck. Can the passengers therefore disembark into the wreck, for example if access ports are blocked? If the Vehicle is annihilated and replaced by crater can the passengers disembark into the crater?





Independent Characters.
Q: Page 51 seems to imply that Independent Characters do not fully lose their status when they are attached to a retinue, and all 4th edition codexes follow this principle. However, nearly all 3rd edition codexes (and the 4th edition Tau Emprie codex) still state that an Indpendent Character that takes a retinue loses his Independent Character status while that retinue remains in play (meaning he no longer follows the character rules on pages 50-52).

Q: Does an Independent Character (from an older codex) that takes a retinue fully lose their Independent Character status, or do they simply follow the rules for “Retinues” as found on page 51 instead? Or is this determined on a codex by codex basis (for example, Tau seem to lose their Independent Character status if they take a retinue while Black Templars, Space Marines and Tyranids do not)?


Independent Characters joined to units that are wiped out.
Q: When an Independent is joined to or part of unit, and that unit is wiped out by shooting at what does the IC become independent?

A) As soon as the last model in the unit is killed (meaning he may benefit from IC status for the rest of the shooting phase)

B) At the end of the shooting phase

C) At the start of the players movement phase

If the answer is A or B, can enemy units that fired at the unit that was subsequently wiped still assault the remaining IC in the following Assault phase?

Q: Allied to the above: when Independent Characters are joined to, or part of a unit, and that unit is wiped out by shooting or close combat, does the character still have to take Morale and Pinning tests as if he was part of the unit (including the -1 Ld modifier for the unit being under 50% strength)?




The status of embarked models at the end of the game.
Q: The GW online rulebook FAQ says: “As transported models are not physically on the table they cannot do anything (unless specified otherwise).” Page 84 of the rulebook states that units that are “off-table” at the end of the game give up full Victory Points to the enemy.

Q: Do embarked units give up full Victory Points to the enemy at the end of the game? Can embarked units still capture objectives/table quarters? If so, how much of the transport vehicle must be within the specified objective distance for the embarked unit to claim it?


Reserves
Q: Pages 84-85 says: “Each selection from the Force Organization chart is diced for separately at the start of the player’s turn. When a reserve unit arrives, it must move on as specified in the Reserves section of the mission description.” And: “Note: You must roll for reserves as soon as possible and must bring them onto the table as soon as they are available.”

How strong is the phrase ‘as soon as they are available’? Does

A) The player with Reserves roll for all of his units in Reserve first, and then move them onto the table as if normal movement
B) Does the player roll for each Reserve and, if successful, move that unit onto the table before rolling for the next unit in Reserve?


Reserves deployment board edge.
Q: The Reserves instruction in each of the Standard mission says the following: “When available, reserves move on from the player’s deployment zone board edge.” What exactly constitutes the Deployment Zone board edge?

On a Corner deployment mission (like Cleanse) the “deployment zone board edge” is considered:

A) Both full table edges that the deployment table quarter shares edges with (i.e. a full 4’+6’ of table edge to move on from).
B) Just the table edges that make up the deployment table quarter (i.e. 2’+3’ of table edge to move on from).

On a Long Board Edge deployment mission (like Secure and Control) with a 12” deployment zone, the “deployment zone board edge” is considered:

A) The full long deployment table edge, plus both full short table edges (i.e. a full 6’+4’+4’ of table edge to move on from).
B) The full long deployment table edge, plus both short table edges that make up part of the deployment zone (i.e. in this mission 6’+12”+12” of table edge to move on from).
C) Just the full long deployment table edge (i.e. 6’ of table edge to move on from).


Deep Strike
Q: If Jump Infantry Deep Strike into difficult terrain do they have to take a Dangerous Terrain test?

Q: If a unit with the Fleet ability Deep-Strikes, can it then fleet instead of shooting?




Universal Special Rules
Q: Page 74 of the rulebook says: “The following unit special rules are the definitive versions, and replace special rules of the same name printed in full in Codices.” Many codices have restrictions or permissions on who can or cannot use the special rule located within the text of the special rule itself. If the special rule is replaced by the text in the rulebook, these restrictions and permissions are lost. For example, the “Infiltrate” special rule in the Chaos Space Marine Codex (page 19) says: “Models with a bike, a Steed, Followers, Daemonic Stature, the Mark of Khorne or Terminator Armour cannot use this skill.” If that text is replaced in full by the rulebook version then all of those restrictions are lost. Similar issues apply to the Daemonhunter codex’s version of “True Grit” and the 13th Company’s version of “Scout” (to name just a few examples). Do the rulebook versions of the Universal Special Rules fully replace their codex counter-parts, or do permissions and restrictions located within the rules text remain in effect?






Necron Questions

Q: If a Necron Lord self-repairs, but standing him back up will put him within 1 inch of an enemy model (or even directly into base contact if he is totally surrounded), what happens?

Q: The Living Metal rule says: “. . .any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armor penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.” Does this mean a model with a powerfist loses the double strength bonus when attacking a monolith? Can the Fire Prism using the bank shot ability count the raised strength against the monolith? (i.e. if two prisms combine in a focused shot is it S10 or S9)



Space Marine Questions

Command Squads
Q: Can you select a space marine command squad without an accompanying IC (as a free-standing HQ choice)?

Whirlwinds
Q: If multiple Castellan Minefields occupy the same area do enemy models that move roll for each minefield or just once?

Q: Castellan Mines are listed as Ordnance Barrage weapons. Do units that suffer wounds from a minefield have to take a Pinning Test? Are hits on a vehicle caused by a minefield counted as “Ordnance”?

Q: If a model has to test every time it moves, does all type of movement count? For example, a Space Marine model is standing in a minefield. An enemy model moves into the minefield and tests to trigger a mine (and luckily fails to do so). If that enemy model makes a charge move in the Assault phase does he test again? If the enemy model had to make a Consolidation or Pile-in move within the minefield would he test yet again?




Tau Clarifications

Q: Codex: Tau Empire codex appears to list the ‘Devilfish Transport’ as a troops option. Is this correct?


CODEX ORK QUESTIONS

1) Where do looters loot from? Codex: Orks says the rule book however that no longer contains valid army lists so do I use the most upto date codex?

2) Where do I loot looted vehicles from? Same as above.

3a) Do squigs count towards the number of Orks in a unit for Waaagh/mob size tests? It specifically excludes grots from adding to the tests but never mentions Squigs.

3b) If Grots/Squigs dont count as Orks can they ride in a vehicle which only has a capacity to hold Orks?

4) When an Ork mob "mobs up" with another unit do they: keep any skills they had, lose them or become part of the new unit & gain their skills?

5) How many hits do Spikes & Blades inflict? One per missed attack, one per model that misses or one if none of a models attacks hit?


DARK ANGELS
1) Dark Angels Command Squads and Independent Characters: They are bought as a single HQ choice, but are a separate units. Does this means in Escalation if the Command Squad have a transport, that the Independent Character must start on the board on his own?

2) Can Dark Angels assault from a Drop Pod? It is open-topped and has deployed by deep-strike rather than moving a set distance.

ELDAR

Veil of Tears
Does Veil of Tears affect weapons affect guess range weapons?
Does Acute Senses work against Veil of Tears?
If a Harlequin Unit is hit by a markerlight do subsequent units that use the markerlight hit still need to test?
Does Veil of Tears work against weapons that do not require line of sight such as SMS or Seeker Missiles?


NECRON

Phase Out
How does forcing a Necron army to phase out impact on tournament points? Does this count as scoring a massacre result? Does this automatically grant a certain VP score? If not should the opposing player play out any remaining turns (inc random game) in order to see if they can score more VPs (e.g. by grabbing objectives).
 

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If an Eldar tank with Vectored Engines is immobilised, does it still benefit from the 'Skimmers moving Fast' rule when susbsequently shot at?

What happens when a Farseer with Runes of Witnessing tries to cast a power if an opposing Farseer has Runes of Warding? (Likewise Shadow in the Warp, but can't remember if its already been covered in previous FAQ's)

Can an Autarch on a jetbike Fleet?

Can Deep-striking units fleet?

Does a linked Fire Prism shot count as S10 when firing at a Monolith?

Can Apothecaries be used if a weapon ignores armour saves?

Just a note, you might want to use the 'Unassaultable formation' example in the 1" query.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm going to supply some rules text for the above if i can to explain, especially for the unassaultable formation question!

I believe your first question is answered in the BGB:
"Any hit that beats the armour value of a mobile skimmer moving more than 6" in it's last movement phase counts as glancing hits instead of penetrating hits."

These kind of questions, ones we can answer but are perhaps not obvious, might be worth recording (A heresy FAQ?)

Is there any BGB or codex text we can attach to the above questions?
 

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I believe your first question is answered in the BGB:
"Any hit that beats the armour value of a mobile skimmer moving more than 6" in it's last movement phase counts as glancing hits instead of penetrating hits."
Excellent. Cheers for that, the idiots arguing otherwise on the web mysteriously ommitted that rather important bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i believe there is some debate about what counts as a failed save, although i'm not familiar with minutae
 

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torgoch said:
i believe there is some debate about what counts as a failed save, although i'm not familiar with minutae
Insta-kills.

BGB said:
If a creature is wounded by something which has a Strength value of double their Toughness value or greater and fail their save...
So, if a failed save is different to "no save allowed due to AP", then shooting a space marine commander with a lascnnon only does him one wound.
 

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Excellent thread torgoch, and one i will try to contribute to wherever possible. My codicies and Brb are in the car at the mo or i would start page ref-ing now. One obvious place to check first though is the current FAQ's
 

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cccp_one said:
nope. look under the narthecum/reductor entry in the SM codex.
You cant use it vs a CCW that ignores saves or weapons that inflict ID. You can use it any time a save is failed. & as SD points out above if not getting a save due to AP is not a failed save then Instant Death breaks down, tyranid Implant attacks dont work from monstrous creatures & there are some more rules that stop working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So what is the question we should be asking?

Is it:
Is a 'failed save' synonymous with 'having no save'?

Is it:
Does a model wounded by a weapon of sufficient AP to negate the save (e.g. marine hit by lascannon), or a model wounded by a weapon that ignores saves (e.g. a powerfist) as having failed the save for purposes of instant-kill?
The relevent text is:
If a creature is wounded by something which has a Strength value of double their Toughness value or greater and fail their save...
Treating the RAW a space marine captain hit by a powerfist is not instant killed as he has not failed a save.



Or is it sill something to do with the Narthecium? Or both?
 

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Ok here are a few Ork related ones:

1) Where do looters loot from?
Codex: Orks says the rule book however that no longer contains valid army lists so do I use the most upto date codex?

2) Where do I loot looted vehicles from?
Same as above.

3a) Do squigs count towards the number of Orks in a unit for Waaagh/mob size tests?
It specifically excludes grots from adding to the tests but never mentions Squigs.

3b) If Grots/Squigs dont count as Orks can they ride in a vehicle which only has a capacity to hold Orks?

4) When an Ork mob "mobs up" with another unit do they: keep any skills they had, lose them or become part of the new unit & gain their skills?

5) How many hits do Spikes & Blades inflict?
one per missed attack, one per model that misses or one if none of a models attacks hit?

More as I think of them....
 

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torgoch said:
Or is it sill something to do with the Narthecium? Or both?
Its all three & more :lol:
To suffer ID you must fail a save.
A Narthesium can be used when you fail a save.
Implant attacks inflict two wounds on models that fail a save.

The issue is whether or not no save due to AP is a "failed save".

There are more examples but I am away from my codecii atm.
 

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when doing a tank shock with a fast skimmer (ie wave serpent) do all the units you pass over/through cont as being tank shocked or only the unit you finish your move on?

have had 3 diferent interpretations of this one

1) you can only tank shock 1 unit, you have to stop an inch away from the next (seems strange from a fluff point of view, charge ull pelt at one sqaud then hit the brakes so you dont accidentally hit the one behind them)

2) only a unit you end your tank shock move on has to move

3) every unit you pass over/through on the 24" has to move. (great for clusters of guard)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
With reference to the skimmer tank shock question, can you illustrate how the rulebook creates ambiguity?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
dakari-mane said:
torgoch said:
Or is it sill something to do with the Narthecium? Or both?
Its all three & more :lol:
To suffer ID you must fail a save.
A Narthesium can be used when you fail a save.
Implant attacks inflict two wounds on models that fail a save.

The issue is whether or not no save due to AP is a "failed save".

There are more examples but I am away from my codecii atm.
On that basis the problem doesn't seem to lie with the Narthecium, then - its use seems pretty clear as it works when you fail a save.

Rather it seems we should be asking either a stack of questions for each issue:
i) does instant kill work when there is no save? (as above)
ii) does implant work when there is no save? (similar to above)

(advantage: the answer is definite, disadvantage: who knows what we might miss)
Or

i) If a weapon allows no save can it be understood that the save has been failed?
then reference the instant death and implant text as examples?
(advantage, complete, disadvantage: unforseen consequences?)
 

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torgoch said:
i) If a weapon allows no save can it be understood that the save has been failed?
then reference the instant death and implant text as examples?
(advantage, complete, disadvantage: unforseen consequences?)
Option two. As it covers all the bases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Cheers. Was actually looking for that the other day, but unfortunately couldn't get it or the YakFAQ through the work filter.

-a
 

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What movement mode do jump infantry (jetpack) use in the assault phase, jumping or walking?
It says that you can move in the assault phase even when not assaulting, but doesn't state that the movement mode is different from normal jump infantry, i.e. walking. On the other hand it says you get the move 'when using your pack'. It's an ambiguous situation. I've been playing it as walking only recently, even though the old tau codex said only jumping.
 
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