[elmir]

Well... they can do that to inquisition. Same with assassins.

But Grey knights was an actual codex. A completely stand alone army in 5th before all this allies things broke out and them not caring that you need to buy 3 books to field your old army.

But you are 100% right that this "release" almost doesn't warrant a hard cover book. It's slightly outrageous. I play this army as my main army... I'm generally positive about what GW does. But this is just a downright dirty move they pulled. They demoted a previously fleshed out codex to something that's almost "doomed" to become a consideration for allies... and that's about it.

If you are not a GK player, you might find it hard to empathise. But just imagine that they removed all Stormtroopers from the full IG book... And then stuck them in codex: Militarum Tempestus.

Can you still field them? Sure... Is it cool that all imperial players would have acces to stormtroopers now? Sure... Would it be a dick move to pull on al IG players? Hell yes! You'd have to buy several books to keep playing with your old army.

 

[Einherjar667]

I don't play GK, but I am a fan. I like the idea of an elite army being all inclusive, and not needing anything added on. I do try to be positive about GWs moves as well. I can't help but feel like they are moving up a lot of 40k releases to get them finished up so they can move on to the 7th ed books. Though that shouldn't come with any sacrifices :\

I was looking forward to seeing GKs expanded on, new units, and perhaps a model for Mordrak and Ghost Knights.

 

[Reaper45]

If you would consider it awesome if the models you worked on all this time suddenly got split into several different source... "They are not losing half of their Codex, you are gaining the opportunity to buy that separately"

BTW, what Mary Sue stuff was it exactly that Ward created? I know bitching about Ward is the really recent hot thing to do right now ( :laugh: ), but if having a Ward codex means that you would have to trade in a bit of bad fluff (Black library does it better anyway) for superdecent rules in your codex that allows for several builds where you don't deliberately gimp yourself for choosing something other than the OP unit in each slot... I'll have a Ward codex any day.

What's the alternatives... Having Cruddace screw it up completely and leaving you with nothing? Or having Phil Kelly do it, which means a codex where even the dumbest tactician can fingerpoint the OP unit in each slot. Don't forget that right now, it's the allmighty Phil Kelly's brainchild that is almost half on the top tables in tournaments with his Eldar BS.

So really, what's so awesome?

The new Cut-Copy-Paste codex format they are trying now?

I'm not getting into a tactic debate with you, I've seen most of the new books play the only reason why Eldar is such a powerful book is because the players understand their book and their opponents book extremely well.

Greyknights have plenty of broken builds and personally they feel like they should be a support force that compliments a players army.

 

[elmir]

I'm not getting into a tactic debate with you, I've seen most of the new books play the only reason why Eldar is such a powerful book is because the players understand their book and their opponents book extremely well.

Greyknights have plenty of broken builds and personally they feel like they should be a support force that compliments a players army.

Yeah, cute... Eldar really aren't too bad. It's all their players who are magically better than all the rest. Just like GKs were at the end of 5th. Just plain magically better!

It has nothing to do with the fact that their 130-140 point transports shoot harder than most battletanks of other armies. It has nothing to do with a damn near invincible seerstar. Wraithknights are also just fine k:


I'm sure that all those eldar players were just "on vacation" when their old dex was there, and then just showed up out of nowhere again when the new book hit.

This is the top ten of the last ATC tourney:

Top Ten
4x Eldar
3x Imperial Knights
1x Dark Eldar
1x Grey Knights
1x Necrons

I'm sure those brand new imperial knight players just know their army better and their opponent better than ALL the others, right? You wouldn't happen to play Eldar, do you?

Anyway, this isn't even about that. Regardless of whether or not a GK player touched you in naughty places during 5th, it just really blows chucks that they suddenly decide to "turn back the clock" and make GKs a mere support codex. Especially after having been a stand alone codex for so long (one that didn't have to rely on allies to fill crucial battlefield roles).

If you actually look at how the army got treated since their early days of codex: Daemonhunters, it's pretty appalling what they already scratched off the list, then added, then scratched again...

 

[Reaper45]

Yeah, cute... Eldar really aren't too bad. It's all their players who are magically better than all the rest. Just like GKs were at the end of 5th. Just plain magically better!

It has nothing to do with the fact that their 130-140 point transports shoot harder than most battletanks of other armies. It has nothing to do with a damn near invincible seerstar. Wraithknights are also just fine k:


I'm sure that all those eldar players were just "on vacation" when their old dex was there, and then just showed up out of nowhere again when the new book hit.

This is the top ten of the last ATC tourney:

Top Ten
4x Eldar
3x Imperial Knights
1x Dark Eldar
1x Grey Knights
1x Necrons

I'm sure those brand new imperial knight players just know their army better and their opponent better than ALL the others, right? You wouldn't happen to play Eldar, do you?

Anyway, this isn't even about that. Regardless of whether or not a GK player touched you in naughty places during 5th, it just really blows chucks that they suddenly decide to "turn back the clock" and make GKs a mere support codex. Especially after having been a stand alone codex for so long (one that didn't have to rely on allies to fill crucial battlefield roles).

If you actually look at how the army got treated since their early days of codex: Daemonhunters, it's pretty appalling what they already scratched off the list, then added, then scratched again...

People also said tomb kings would never be a competitive book.

Yet somehow they won a tourny. People also say that Nids are a weak codex now, most of the players who played against them say they are still a force to be reckoned with.

It is all about the players, I'm fairly certain most of the guys who won tournaments actually took the time and read their damn rules and know their opponents armies better than they do.
I watched eldar play, if you get the wrong unit in the wrong place you die fast so yes it is about the player.

Oh and for the record I play orks.

 

[scscofield]

What does any of that have to do with his valid issue of half his codex being turned into other codex/supplements?

Or are you just here to go neener neener gk ward sucks yadda yadda.

 

[Reaper45]

What does any of that have to do with his valid issue of half his codex being turned into other codex/supplements?

Or are you just here to go neener neener gk ward sucks yadda yadda.

At this point I have no idea how we got onto that track.

 

[elmir]

At this point I have no idea how we got onto that track.

If you just go back a bit, you'll see that that mr. Reaper over here suddenly starts claiming everything well be awesome again if GKs just lose half of their codex because apparently, Matt Ward made a Mary Sue mess of it...

Because ironically enough, the units that "Ward" (because let's face it, no man wrote a codex singlehandedly anyway) added to the 2005 daemonhunter books when the 2011 codex came out, are:

- Librarians
- Brotherhood champions
- Crowe
- Draigo
- Purifiers
- Paladins
- Rifleman dreads
- Dreadknights
- Interceptors
- Stormravens
- Mordrak and Ghost knights
- Thawn

Baiscally, everything that was added then, is almost the only thing that remains of the book. Because you know... Ward sucks, and even though he's no longer here, it's somehow HIS fault again that they have to cut out the mess that he's made of the book.

Except that, when you have any knowledge of the prior books and think for 2 seconds before mindlessly droning on about a "Wardcodex".... you'll see that the stuff that "Ward made", is all that remains in this new codex.

The stuff that remains in the new codex that was already there in 2005:

- Brother captains
- Terminators
- Normal dreads
- Normal PaGKs (now knows as Strike Squads)
- Landraiders
- Rhino
- Razorback

Or are you just here to go neener neener gk ward sucks yadda yadda.

This pretty much sums up his arguments thus far. GKs were OP, all the rest is fine now (despite... you know... facts about Eldar presence on top tables). So they deserve this treatment because Mat Ward made an insanely powerful codex. Even though almost all the stuff he added is still there, and the list that he didn't add to the army is SHORTER than the list of things he did add to the new codex. :crazy:

 

[Bindi Baji]

Or are you just here to go neener neener gk ward sucks yadda yadda.

Congratulations; you win