:laugh: what the fuck are you smoking, amigo? Either you're new to Orks or you're very forgetful, because did you ever play with their 4th ed book? Tankbustas were exactly as they are now, but without Tank Hunters and were more expensive to justify having a detrimental special rule that forced them to shoot a vehicle if they could see it - and if they were out of range of that vehicle, they couldn't shoot. Lootas were more expensive. Boyz didn't have grenades. Painboys were Nobs-only. Boarding Planks were basically blank pieces of wargear. Ere We Go, a powerful rule, wasn't on a single unit, much less the entire army. What, exactly, makes you think that Orks have been nerfed, ever?Except Buzzgob's Stompa is highly contentious, and taking that for 400 points can be seen as TFG by many. I'm OK with kustom stompas though, and prefer them to the codex version.
Powerklaws are great, but to take on a knight, you're swamping it in Boyz to deliver the klaw, or klaws if you chuck in a IC, or you could spam MANZ of course.
So we're down to spamming klaws, until GW notices, and nerfs that too.
I hate to tell you this, but 'put Boyz with Klaws in Battlewagons' has been the consistent Ork strat since 4th edition, only challenged by Kan Wall in 5th (no, Green Tide was never a good army before the formation), and Zhadsnark/Buzzgob's Stompa since that was allowed in ITC. Boyz shielding Klaws is like Tau running Battlesuits, or Daemons running multiple fast, aggressive threats; it's what the faction does.
'I don't want to field a load of dudes or have them be vulnerable'Rush, I totally agree, tankbustas were excellent value for money, but they are so vulnerable, you have to spend points to protect them to get them in to combat, or spam the hell out of them.
So play Necrons?
'300% or 600% more Melta Bombs than any other army following up a volley from Tank Hunter krak missiles isn't good enough for a 13pt model'However we weren't throwing as many grenades as we liked, we were sacrificing multiple base attacks for a single attack per model, so between 5-10. Totally lethal, but the attrition of getting there means you were most likely only attacking with 3-6 models, if you were lucky.
Fuck, man, should they be 3+ armour and Twin Linked as well, or would you still complain that they didn't have ATSKNF?
'Knocking off a few hull points' is kind of how you kill vehicles. Sure, they don't hit much, but once they do hit a Tank Hunter Krak Missile is very reliable at stripping Hull Points, and it's 130pts for a squad! That's the same as a Devastator Squad with 4 Missile Launchers, which will average the same number of hits but without Tank Hunter!BS2 rockets are only really useful for knocking off a few hull you cannot rely on 5-10 BS2 shots to do any serious damage. Close combat melta bombs were where the bustas shined.
So bring Battlewagons instead? Trukks have been 'shit Battlewagons' since 4th ed, that hasn't miraculously changed now.Also, open topped av10 trukks get blown to hell so easily by virtually everything it's not even funny. Then All those t-shirt save Orks are taking str4 hits, wiping out about half the squad, then if you do have mob rule, even more are wiped out by your own nob. It's ridiculous, basically you have to write them off.
Battlewagon and numbers. Always worked for me. Sure, a Battlewagon isn't super hard to kill, but you work on the same strategy as Daemons; bring 2000pts of them and cram them into your enemy's craw. Orks are kind of stupidly quick when they want to be (12" Scout in Battlewagons, 12" move, 6" Flat Out, 6" move, D6" Run, 2D6" with Ere We Go charge) and you can usually get a turn 2 charge off; can your opponent kill all of your stuff before turn 2? Often, the answer to that is no.Getting tankbustas into cc is an art in itself, requiring imagination, luck and flair, I've used All sorts of delivery systems, my favorite being weird boy ic and da jump, which has been great fun, but relies on so much luck it's hardly a viable or reliable strategy.
I'm not offering that as a guaranteed 'you will win all the tournaments ever' tactic, but Orks are not at all bad. I know that from experience.
Whereas the main thing that bothers me is that Orks have so few quality players. They're not tournament-winners, as they suck at Maelstrom and can't do anything like Battle Company or Riptide Wing, but they're absolutely the top of the middle tables.The main thing that grinds me is that Orks have so few quality units, yet GW can't even let us keep what we have.