Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a question that's been lurking at the back of my mind. I'm constructing a Black Legion army, and I'm having trouble reaching 1500 points with my current models available. I have a list that totals 1501, but therein lies this:

Would it be considered acceptable to use the rules for a Great Unclean One from the Chaos Daemons codex as opposed to using the CSM Codex rules for a Summoned Greater Daemon, if my opponent allows it? Comparing 4th and 5th edition Codexes, Greater Daemons were terribly generalized, and I want something a little more individual.

I'm sure this wouldn't fly in Tournaments, and would be acceptable by Allies rules in Apocalypse, but I'm not sure about regular play. I'd also be more than willing to submit my list for review, if anyone would care to take a look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
Honestly it comes down to this, You buy their plastic spacemen, you buy their rulebook telling them how to use the plastic spacemen you now own. Logical? Barely. If you wanted each Chaos marine to be str 10 then its your choice, if your opponent agrees then of course. But your right about tourneys. Also if somone lets you do this, beware of the caliber of person your playing, you dont want to win using it in your list, then after winning have the person say: "You only won because I let you count that as a greater demon of nurgle"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
It appears that GW is moving way from allies in regular play. I don't know where the articel is located but IIRC the official stance is ,unless specified in your codex that you may take allies then no. But in friendly games check in advance or bring a substitute list.
Me , I'd let you it might be fun. But don't quote me on the "official" part as can't remember where I saw that, it sound reasonable to me so run with it, the main thing to remember is that in friendly games you can flex the rules as long as it is agreed to in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
You can't mix codices in a list, but you might agree with your friend to each use 2 lists at the same time. Use 1 FOC for the CSM and another FOC for the Chaos Daemons. Each would need to be a legal list of 2 Troops and 1 HQ, and the tradition for combined lists is that the points are evenly spread between them (750pts of CSM and 750pts of Chaos Daemons). This would be for friendly games only.

In club games or tourneys you can only use a single codex per army, and it is not permitted to mix and match. Many SM players I know would love to have a mix of BA, UM, DA and BT and use the best rules from each codex.
Basically it is cheating so don't do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
I say if you clearly explain what you want to do to your opponent, ie saying that it's not strictly within the rules and they agree with it, why not? Sure don't expect to be able to do this in tournaments or against some casual players but some really great games come from improvisation.

If an opponent i knew well asked if he could bring in a few extra units from a different codex to make up the points i'd agree, just be sure that you only do this with people you know, trust and they are comfortable doing this. :victory:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
I cheat more than you do, I have an all legion of the damned army of sm I just ask opponent if its okay, you should be fine as long as you ask, but it wouldn't be tournament legal
 

·
blahblahblahblah
Joined
·
6,663 Posts
just ask your opponent, I wouldn't have a problem with the chaos marine and chaos daemon codex being mixed, personally I think thats how it should of been, with some limits of course, similar to the grey knights allies rules
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,491 Posts
I suppose next thing Kroot will have their own (official) codex.
Look out for Codex: Gretchin in 2012.
Followed by Codex: SM Scouts in 2013.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
736 Posts
Would it be considered acceptable to use the rules for a Great Unclean One from the Chaos Daemons codex as opposed to using the CSM Codex rules for a Summoned Greater Daemon, if my opponent allows it?
if your opponent agrees to it then there is not logical reason why you should be concerned about any kind of 3rd party. GW don't much care how you use the models you've bought from them, and you really shouldn't feel you have to listen to other gamers who are leeching the fun from the game for you.

its your (thats plural, not singular) game, and you and your friends should feel free to play it as you want.

there seems to be this really strange mentality that flows down from major sports; gamers often see the game as being them verses the game, and that their opponent is only a function of the game. it doesn't seem to matter who you opponent is, or what they want to get out of the experience. they're just their to provide little more than a set of random dice rolls and some miniatures.

its one of the things that makes me really dislike the pick-up game culture found in stores and the tournament scene in general.

40k, like all games, is a way of interacting with friends (or strangers). it a form of social interaction. it helps you get to know people better and have a good time. good games should involve a lot of back an forth about the set-up of the game and the way the game is played out. its like a conversation. but people seem to treat it more like an argument. not really caring what the other persons point or perspective is, just whether they can win. its a tragic shame. and i know that all the bast games i've ever played have started off with someone saying 'i've had an idea and i want to try it out' and everyone else being willing to give it a go.

my sincere advice would be don't post a armylist here. we don't matter. what matters is what your friends/opponents. run it by them, see what they think. don't worry if it doesn't work out, talk to them about what worked and what didn't and give it another go with some changes based on what you guys have discussed.

these forums have a real use and benefit, its good to run tournament armylists or brand new ones past people here, because the extra sets of eyes and tactical though can be helpful, but in this situation, i would say we aren't the people you need to be talking to.
 

·
blahblahblahblah
Joined
·
6,663 Posts
The same reason why GW does anything anymore.....CASH!
don't forget combining them in some way would of been extremely confusing for us players, thats there usual excuse, they obviously have this idea we are all moronic brainless morons spending our money just to roll handfuls of dice.......................oh wait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
In friendly games you can do ANYTHING you want. You can have an SM army led by a Greater Daemon, or a Tau army led by an Ork Warboss - make up anything you like.

If you play by the official rules then you can't mix units from one codex with units from a different codex. If you are not playing by the rules then do what ever you like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
In friendly games you can do ANYTHING you want. You can have an SM army led by a Greater Daemon, or a Tau army led by an Ork Warboss - make up anything you like.

If you play by the official rules then you can't mix units from one codex with units from a different codex. If you are not playing by the rules then do what ever you like.
There arent "Official" Rules. Unless you meant the rulebook. Which is only law at tourneys. And he already said he knows it tournement illegal.
 

·
blahblahblahblah
Joined
·
6,663 Posts
If you play by the official rules then you can't mix units from one codex with units from a different codex.
of course if you play by official rules then you take into account that the official rules have an official rule stating the rules are not important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,648 Posts
There arent "Official" Rules. Unless you meant the rulebook. Which is only law at tourneys. And he already said he knows it tournement illegal.
of course if you play by official rules then you take into account that the official rules have an official rule stating the rules are not important.
Maybe you guys didn't read the whole post, please feel free to look back and see that I wrote: 'In friendly games you can do ANYTHING you want.'

Please don't troll.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
It's actually incredibly fun! I play Daemons and Necrons, and one of my friends play csm. He mentioned it to me and we sat down and figured it out. As long as he's paying the points it works out pretty well. The only thing we decided is that it has to take up the same force org slot, but retained all the stats and special rules for it. But seriously, give it a shot. We had a blast doing it.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top