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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, Hi everyone, I'm new here, nice page. Very clean.

If I remember good in 3th edition gravitatory vehicles in general didn't blocked line of sight, so for example, a Howling Banshee Unit disembarking from a Wave Serpent were unprotected against fire from enemies in front of the Wave Serpent.

Is this working in the same way now in 4th edition? I have the rulebook but I don't find a similar rule.

Could you please help me a little bit here?

Thanks,

Regards,
Earemir.
 

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i think that know you have to pass a target priority test to see if you can shoot.

for example, banshees get out of wave serpent but to be shot your opponent has to pass a target priority test, i think.
 

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I thought vehicles were not eligible to have the priority test taken. In other words, vehicles if i remember right may be shot at regardless of priority and can shoot at anything regardless of priority. Thats just off memory though
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes you are right, you don't have to pass a priority test for vehicles and monstrous creatures, But what about the line of sight, gravitatory vehicles block line of sight?


x -------> W b


For example, if X is a devastator squad, W is a wave serpent and B is a Banshee Squad, can X see B and fire at them?

What do you think?
 

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It says so right in the rules. Skimmers never block line of sight.
 

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However, just because skimmers don;t block LoS doesn;t mean hiding behind them is a bad idea.

A common Tau tactic ("Fish of Fury") is to move their skimmer transport in close, disembark a unit of fire warriors from the back (within 12" rapid fire range) and unload into the target squad from behind their tank. Meanwhile, if the target squad wants to fire back they have to make a target priority check. And if they want to charge the melee-weak tau, they have to run all the way around the tank, and by then the Tua will have climbed back in and taken off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, you are right, nice tip. I usually use Banshees but I'm having some problems to reach combat without been killed first.

Can you help me some tips about how to manage banshees in Wave Serpents, how to assault efficiently?
 

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Well, the first thing to remember is that no army consists of just one squad. Your melee troops will never get into assualt if they don;t have fire support taking out squadbusting guns, and other units providing a distraction. When I play marines,I have my LSTs buzzing the enrmy, raking them with withering fire and generally drawing a ton of fire while my assault squad leap frogs from cover toc over until they;re in range.

A skimmer transport means you can't completely hide behind it, but at least they'll have to make a Ld check to shoot your squad.

Try not to get too close when you deploy. Banshees are Fleet, which means they can move 6+1d6" and then assault 6" if you don't fire. Try placing your banshees out of rapid-fire range. They can close that gap pretty swiftly on your turn, and it;ll help keep them from getting mown down. If the enemy squad doesn;t have heavy weapons and isn't afraid to get in closer, you might place them further back than that, so they can;t move up and then rapid-fire your ass off.

Don't forget about terrain. See if you can deploy behind some piece of area terrain, or a LOS-blocking terrain feature, like a hill or wall. Even if it puts you a little further back, you can probably gamble on fleet to get you by.

Use the transport to harass the enemy. Tank shock them, shoot the crap out of them, keep it between them and you. aNything to make them focus shots on your serpent. Between the energy field and its fast skimmer status, that little monster is going to be hard to kill
 

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Galahad said:
However, just because skimmers don;t block LoS doesn;t mean hiding behind them is a bad idea.

A common Tau tactic ("Fish of Fury") is to move their skimmer transport in close, disembark a unit of fire warriors from the back (within 12" rapid fire range) and unload into the target squad from behind their tank. Meanwhile, if the target squad wants to fire back they have to make a target priority check. And if they want to charge the melee-weak tau, they have to run all the way around the tank, and by then the Tua will have climbed back in and taken off.
Ummm...they do not have to make a target priority check. They either choose to shoot at the troops or the vehicle. They can gladly shoot the firewarriors with no target priority roll required. Says so right in the rule book.
 

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Just think of it this way--If something was floating (a skimmer) above a squad, why shouldnt i be able to shoot at it?

Skimmers are really "skimming" the ground.

They are probably around 12 feet off of the ground.
 

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You don;t have to make a target priority check to shoot a squad if a vehicle is closer?

I thought it was only the other way around (you don;t need to check to shoot a vehicle, unless another vehicle is closer)
 

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Pathwinder- It actually does not say so in the rulebook. It is often played that way, but not correct.

-The rules state you have to fire at the nearest unit.
-If you choose to fire at something other than the nearest unit, you make a target priority test.
-Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures are an exception. You may opt to target the closest one w/o a target priority test.
-There is no rule that states you can ignore the vehicle/monstrous creature to fire at infantry. (This is the part that gets confused often)

I've had to read that section a few times to realize that targetting vehicles/monstrous creatures is the only one you don't roll target priority for.
 

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PW I would have to say that you are mistaken in this. You have to take a LD test not to shoot at the closest enemy anything. If the DF is closer than the FWs, then you have to test to not shoot at the DF. Where you are getting mistaken is that you can choose to shoot at the closest vehicle or MC with no LD test.
 

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You are both wrong. RE-read the rules. WHen shooting you first have to declare if you are shooting at troops or vehicles/monstrous creatures. Once you make that decision you have to fire at the closest of the chosen type. If you have one of two units of troops to shoot at then you make a priority check. If you have one of two units of monstrous creatures/vehicles to shoot at you make a priority check.

You can ignore the vehicle for teh troops with no priority check required. Re-read the rules for LOS and targeting.
 

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The rule you're referencing does say you can ignore troops and other non-large units if you elect to shoot at large targets. THis is what we all agree on.

However, you're reading too much into it. Nowhere does it say that you may elect to shoot at only small targets and ingore vehicles and large targets. In fact, it actually very clearly defines what units may be targeted in this way.

FIRING AT LARGE TARGETS (bottom p19)
[...]
when it comes to choosing a target, you can declare that your unit wishes to target enemy vehicles, artillery and monsterous creatures (these are the ONLY unit types that you can target this way, collectively referred to as 'Large Targets'). If you choose to target Large Targets then other unit can be ingored in terms of determining the closest target.
[...]
(emphasis mine)

It says very clearly, that you may ONLY do this when targeting vehicles, artillery and monsterous creatures.

Meaning it only goes one way. You can ingore squads to target vehicles, but you CANNOT ignore the vehicle to target the squad. Nothing in the rule even suggests that you can opt to fire at only smaller targets.

Unless you;re citing some other rule, in which case please give me a page number and quote
 

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You're missing the point. Unless you state you are going to shoot at large targets you will shoot at other units.

In our or example I can freely shoot the Fire Warriors because I am not declaring large targets. Now then, if there was another unit of troops closer to my squad I would have to make a target priority check to be able to shoot the fire warriors instead.

I do not have to make a target priority check because I am shooting units of troops. To shoot at anything other than units of troops I have to declare I am shooting at large targets. Since I did not make that declaration, I can freely shoot the firewarriors.

Look in the book again. The example you see is a unit of eldar standing behind a falcon. It clearly states they can be shot at because the falcon does not block LOS. It says nothing about a priority check.
 

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pathwinder14 said:
Look in the book again. The example you see is a unit of eldar standing behind a falcon. It clearly states they can be shot at because the falcon does not block LOS. It says nothing about a priority check.
That example is talking about line of sight, not target priority. It's only stating what legal targets may be shot at, not mentioning at all which ones you would have to take a test to shoot at.

The last part of the quoted rule, "A leadership test is still required to target anything other than the closest large target"
 

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blkdymnd said:
The last part of the quoted rule, "A leadership test is still required to target anything other than the closest large target"
Yes, but this only comes into play if you declare you are shooting at large targets. If I am not shooting large targets I do not have to take a LD test for priority.

In the shooting phase units get a few choices. They can either shoot other units OR they can shoot large targets. Once they decide which one they are shooting at they then need to shoot the closest one. I.E. if I declare I'm shooting units I have to shoot the closest unit. If I am shooting large targets I have to shoot the closest large target. If I want to shoot anything other than the closest one, then (and only then) do I take a target priority check.

Target priority is used to allow units to choose between the closest threat of a similar size category.
.........................................................
X........................................... TTTT
X.........................................................
X.................................................... UUUUU
X.........................................................
X.............................................................

X= my unit
TTTT = Immobilized Enemy tank
UUUUU = Enemy unit of troops
........= Grass

My unit does not have to make a target priority check to shoot your unit. SInce I never declared I'm shooting large targets I can ignore the immoblized tank.

No where in the rule book does it state I HAVE to shoot large targets. It does however state I'm given the choice to shoot large targets if I want to. It's my choice. By your ruling I now HAVE to shoot the devilfish or take a target priority check to shoot the firewarriors. My ability to choose large targets has been made for me. This is not correct.

Read it again. Call GW and they will back what I'm saying.
 
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