Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
JUGGERNUT
Joined
·
2,558 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a certain player that I face off against from time to time, and when he gets the feeling he's going to lose a game, he either forfeits or checks out. I have only tabled an opponent once in all my time playing. My victories have typically been hard fought, culminating in turn 5 or 6. I'm not talking about triple heldrake or nurgle prince spam or anything like that. Just your average game.

By forfeit, I mean exactly that. To "save us some time" he will usually call the game by the end of turn 3 or some time during turn 4.

By checks out, I mean he won't even bother to let me roll to hit or wound or take his armor saves. He'll just remove the target unit from the table and tell me to consolidate.

Now, my gut reaction is to say this sort of thing is just poor sportsmanship. Of course we want to win the game, but (especially in my case :laugh:) we are likely to lose plenty of games as well. Those games are usually fun for me, with exceptions you can imagine. It's almost as if it's a mockery of my victory, communicating that perhaps it has nothing to do with my "skill" or decisions.

Being in the losing position is familiar to me, so it's not like I don't have sympathy when the dice rolls aren't going his way, but you gotta roll with the punches, man! Have a sense of humor about things!

Something can be said about wanting to save time, I guess. If he calls the game in turn 3, he will still have time to play someone else at a different table and get another game in before the store closes. Perhaps he will win this game and soothe his wounded ego.

I dunno, a bit of a rant I suppose, but have you ever come across a player like this? In general he's a cool guy and it's always fun to hang out and play with him, but jeez, nobody can spoil a victory like him.
 

·
Irn Bru 32!
Joined
·
1,436 Posts
Every hobby group has "that guy". In my case it's grey Knights player who is all smug and happy when he is winning but the moment you destroy his dreadknight or his purifiers he always ends the game or accuses you of cheating and spends like an hour looking through the rule book, re-measuring units and of course calling every unit I bring cheese!.

If it bothers you dude just dont play with him or confront him about it. I personally love option one because I'm shallow as fuck.

Regards, Zoe
:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
The thing is, the game can turn on a sixpence it might look like a disaster turn 3, but it's sometimes possible to pull something out of the bag. So if anything he maybe cheating himself out of a win.
 

·
Critique for da CriticGod
Joined
·
3,351 Posts
That didn't seem like much of a rant actually.

I'd either just not play him, or talk about it aside. Calling him on it publicly will probably just lead to additional attempts at "saving face."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
The thing is, the game can turn on a sixpence it might look like a disaster turn 3, but it's sometimes possible to pull something out of the bag. So if anything he maybe cheating himself out of a win.
i was just going to say something similar..we have a few players like that in my store..but hers what tends to happen...they end up being beaten far more regularly than my other players because they never learn to fight out of a corner..where as other players that fight on tend to win more games due to they way they start looking at the table and their tactics when things go bad.
i wouldn't worry..play him beat him and just realize he is being both a lazy and sore loser.:eek:k:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,246 Posts
When I used to play, I lost my fair share of game, but I love going down in a screaming hell, some of the best games is when I am losing and my game has gone to hell in a handbasket, but I have enjoyed the game.

A hard fought loss by inches is as good as a win.

Tell this tabletop coward to go and play chess.
 

·
Thordis
Joined
·
2,438 Posts
I used to do that, but I also used to give up to easely on everything I did, now I dont do either :p.

these days when I'm starting to lose and I can't think of a way to salvage the situation I just decide to give the opponent hell just out of spite.
funny enough, this resulted in a number of games that I was loosing but then made a 360 in turn 5 resulting in a win for me after all XD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
If getting totally obliterated, then yeah I can see the option of "Well done, you have clearly won" and packing away, even if it is something as stupid as on turn 2 my CSM bikers spawn and maulerfiends have all got in to combat and murdered his best things, his Knight is dead, his leader slain in a challenge and on T1 my 2 vindicators had already taken his terminators and his tank off the board. Then yeah, the game is normally over as he cant hurt my maulers and the rest of the army being melee based he doesn't have much of a defence with what remains.
However if they are just quitting if on T1 his Knight dies or you killed his leader with 1 good shot and that gave you both slay the warlord and first blood (what in some games seems to actually an insurmountable lead). Then that is just dumb as said above. Most games can switch who is winning, especially in the new missions with tactical objectives. Though as said I have seen many an army that when you bring your list to the table your opponent can look at it and just work out that his army is in no way capable in dealing with your army or vice versa (Battleforged R&H Zombie Horde army).
 

·
nice boy, daft though !
Joined
·
10,212 Posts
in his defense, its his game too, if he feels its a lost cause and doesnt want to continue so what?its better that than facing a time waster, i have a friend who plays and i dread his turn as he takes forever, we could easily play a second game if he got his finger out, it wouldnt be so bad if his over thinking of everything actually worked and he won games, if anything it drives other people mental and allows them time to think about his moves and react and beat the crap out him the following turns.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
I utterly despise it when an oppenent quits midway through a game. Anygame for that matter not just 40k just because they think there gonna lose (Try playing an RTS game with my cousin. He demands it and then 20 minutes in quits because you have more resource's and to much artillery). Not only is it inpolite and a sign of bad sportsmanship it saps the fun out of the game. Sure it may suck getting floored but having your oppenent quit halfway through is a worse feeling personally and I would not wish it on anyone. If I'm losing a game I just laugh it off, make a few gutsy crazy moves and see what happens at the end of the day its just a game. Only after turn 5 or if there literally only a few scattered models left would I consider a surrender appropriate

At Game shops I try to avoid people like that and there usally well known enough for it anyway.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
I'm with B&K on this: if someone isn't having fun, then I want them to stop. I would much rather play two half-games that both people were enjoying than make my win more subjectively valid at the cost of someone's free time.

It also strikes me as more realistic: battles throughout history have turned on the supreme commander thinking all is lost or refusing to admit defeat, so winning by making your opponent order a full retreat is as valid as it gets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
The game is about having fun for most people. If you are playing and you're not having fun then its your prerogative if you want to quit. Personally I've only called a game off because of time constraint and never because i was getting my butt handed to me. considering ive had plenty of games go horribly wrong (so much so its comical) it actually keeps me wanting to play to see if i can salvage something from nothing. ok so i didn't win the battle but i slew his warlord. as long as were both having fun.

It also strikes me as more realistic: battles throughout history have turned on the supreme commander thinking all is lost or refusing to admit defeat, so winning by making your opponent order a full retreat is as valid as it gets.
:goodpost: this is a great way of looking at it.
 

·
JUGGERNUT
Joined
·
2,558 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I totally agree about both players needing to have fun to make it a worthwhile endeavor. I wouldn't feel good about a victory where my opponent has just no chance and I'm forcing them to watch unit after unit in their favorite army just die off with no chance of retaliation.

But it is also a two-way street. I drive about 45 minutes to get a game in, and playing piecemeal games like that is super lame to me. Or at least, it can be. I suppose the simple solution is just to choose someone else to play against, no big deal. There are usually a few people waiting around to play 40k, so I could potentially make some new friends and test my list against an army I've never seen.
 

·
The Emperor Protects
Joined
·
5,262 Posts
Games never over till it's over.

Was only playing a game back in the day, when all I had left was my slightly depleted Death Company squad and a Vindicare assassin. The guy had two chaos terminator squads with a lord leading one, a Land Raider, a Vindicator and some cultists. Asked if I wanted to call it then and there, being the start of T4. Nope. That same turn the Vindicare took out the land raider, the Death Company with a nice double 6 charge roll, steamrolled through the one terminator squad. T5 the Vindicare took his lord to 1 wound with a turbo pen, and then the Death Company steamrolled that unit too. No power weapons, just shit tons of dice.

But yeah I get your point. I always play till the end if my opponent wants to. Even if I am hilariously losing, as like another time when all I had left was a Devastator squad that couldn't hit a god damned thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Well, i usually lose big until 3rd-4rth turn and then smashface on 5th-6th, so...if i used this guy strategy, i'd have the worst game records on the planet :)
Of course there are some times where i, too, simply remove a unit from the board with no rolls to be taken (15 traitor guards charged by 30 boyz...5 thightly packed marines shot at by 3 blastmasters, with no scatters...a rhino shot by 15 lootaz who are going to roll some 45 dice at you, and so on) Of course, thats for a casual game. In a narrative game or campaign, every man fights to the death!! I am so proud of my chaos blessed dice rolling, saving at 6+ thrice in a row and twarting an enemy plan just by staying alive out of sheer luck...
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
I'm all for playing the mission rather than your opponent, clinging to a desperate victory by accomplishing the objectives rather than throwing bodies uselessly away. That said, iit's pretty broadly accepted, around my gaming area, to concede if it's unequivocally clear that one army is going to be tabled within the next turn. Warp, I have to take public transit for more than an hour to get to my games, often with clunky army suitcase, and when I'm down to 3 havocs and 3 daemonettes left from my entire army at the bottom of Tau Shooting, T2 (damn you sensor towers and tetras!), I have few qualms about calling the game before the last mini has been pulled--it's no less a crushing defeat for me, personally, that we didn't play some turns of my last minis cowering in a building trying not to get their heads blown off. Or if it's T5 and I have 18 Maelstrom points to my opponent's 4; they're not going to close that gap no matter how they try, so I'm fine accepting their concession.

In some gaming communities, like the competitive Starcraft scene, it can actually be considered rude to not concede when the tide of battle has turned unsalvagably against you: a sign of disrespect that you refuse to acknowledge that your opponent has outplayed you and you have fallen behind in terms of resources and forces; that you don't respect the value of their time by making them play out a foregone conclusion with the extra minutes of mop-up. I'm not advocating 40k adopt that sort of informal policy, by any means: for one thing, a 40k game is easier to swing back in your favor with a smaller, more damaged force with some lucky assault phases and/or Maelstrom card draws, etc.

I'm just trying to say I would rather play a fun game against a player who yields and can laugh about their loss than against a bitter, resentful, verbally aggressive player who's complaining about broken cheese and insisting that we play to the last man. Now, I realize I'm conflating two different things here--attitude of play and length of game--but I figure nobody wants to play a table-flipping ragequitter and everyone likes to play against a player who light-heartedly holds out in a noble last stand... but when it comes down to attitude, that we are both enjoying ourselves is more important to me than playing until one player removes their last mini from the board. Once Be'lakor and Fateweaver are both dead and a squad of 5 Wraiths and 2 Annihilation Barges are descending on the ruin where the remnants of my last squad of cultists are crouched... do we really need to roll this out?

I definitely admit: 'as good as tabled' isn't enough for many folks, so my phrasing is generally along the lines of "Well, I'm willing to concede, unless you want to play it out." And it really depends on what expectations you're both bringing to the board, and how well you know the other player: against some good-natured grudge matches, of course you want to play it out to the end of the last turn, no matter the odds; or alternately, if you've both played this matchup dozens of times and can see that it's all going to go downhill from here, why not put the dog out of its misery?

Which is not to say, is never to say, that the only way to have fun with 40k is determining who has won the mission, all else being irrelevant. There can damn well be fun in heroic last stands and desperate gambles. But I just don't see the fun in forcing players into heroic last stands and such when they're not having fun doing it.

A somewhat lengthy ramble on my part, perhaps, but just an insight into the other side of things. Conceding, to me, isn't an attempt to get out of the social obligation both of you have to each other to see the game through, but rather is a graceful yielding to the overwhelming superiority of your foe, and a recognition that your time--both of your time, as winner and loser--can be more valuably spent than mopping up tattered remnants... and powerlessly getting mopped up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
One tact I used to find worked well for stopping such things was actually if the game has gone badly and they say they will quit. What you could offer if you have time between when your game should have ended and when the next one will start to give them some advice. Things like this is how i would have set up against this army. Or when you moved your guys there, really you should have moved them over here.
I know saying stuff like that if you are a teen and they are a 30year old bloke might get you hit. But you can always try to offer some advice, or just go over their army list and say if you think that X was a bad choice and maybe X other thing, or equipment may have been better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
I guess the other option if playing him regularly is make a strange offer of he plays with your army and you play with his. Then you can show him how to play, while he learns your armies strengths and weaknesses.
 

·
So be it.
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
To echo what's been said, I get that it can be annoying for you, but it seems to me like he's more cheating himself out of valuable learning experiences. Not to mention that games can sometimes completely shift with just a few dice rolls or one lucky tactic. I remember one game I played against chaos demons with my Blood Angels - I didn't play the game all that well, but due to luck and his armies inability to move quickly (other than a few units that I killed) he was one objective up and it was my turn, top of turn seven. I basically ran my assault marines to an objective he controlled and flamed (4 templates) the occupants, annihilating the unit. It shouldn't statistically have happened, but it did. My marines were technically too far to occupy it, but his models couldn't get there in time so we ended up in a tie.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top