[Jacht]

So, in the process of building my army, I have fallen in love with this model. I have a squad of 10 of them built/painted so far and they are the most menacing troops in the game for me (looks wise. rules wise, eh..). I am building an army dedicated to Malal because I like the 1/4th color scheme and the weird lore behind the 5th god. But I digress...

I want to have an army dedicated to these units, but I am at a loss in how to make it stand up even in local games. It's been 8 years since I've played, but from reading online and looking at stats, they are a pretty poor choice un-upgraded.

I really want them to all rock chainswords for the CC power, so the question is, which Codex would best support mobs of power armored melee?

A blob of 20 slaanesh/icon with DA in the CDM codex, along with smaller mobile rhino squads?

or

Squads of 10 in rhinos with the daemonkin codex?

As cool as 20 marines starting on the board would look, I'm leaning toward the second option. I can fit three of those squads outfitted with weapons in a 1500 game. All the rhinos provide tithes/obj secured if they survive, and giving a mass amount of marines fnp/+1 attack for free seems lovely. And they of course rock MoK, which I am unable to give the CSM blob if I want FnP.

Although, the 20 blob can get +1I and fnp with the icon... with the DA giving them all his juice. Perhaps I could run Bile as well to make them superhuman. But they footslog. It would be too expensive to kit out three 10 man squads with the icon.

Any thoughts?

P.S. - I just want this army to hold up in non-tourney games. If someone beings a cheese list to the club, oh well, I'll lose with style.

 

[ntaw]

As a lover of the fist/chainsword/axe/general bludgeoning implement over the projectile (unless that projectile is an axe or hammer; see Arjac) I can promise you that while the metal boxes will keep your unit safe them not being allowed to charge after disembarking (or the turn following being forced to disembark via wrecked or explodes results on the vehicle damage table) will be enough to hobble them almost entirely as an assault unit. A Rhino will keep them safe right up until you deliver them to the thick of the enemy then they'll take a full turn of shooting, risk being charged themselves, or having their prey move too far away (maybe into terrain) for a 6" footslogger to keep up with before they get to do what they're there for. It's tragic, I know.

Are you open to Forgeworld options for getting your beloved chainswords into combat without the embarrassment of tripping over their toes as they get out of their metal boxes?

Otherwise a beefed up 20 man blob will make it but not full strength. Keep in mind the list supporting units like these are almost more important than the units themselves because they have to obscure target priority for your opponent.

EDIT: Or play your army modeled as is but out of the Blood Angel Codex :biggrin:

 

[Squire]

How about compromising with bolter, bolt pistol and CCW? I feel like you could make a decent unit of ten, give them two flamers and maybe a power weapon for the champion and stick them in a rhino. On the turn they disembark you have bolters and flamers to force a bunch of saves/scythe down light infantry; if you then get charged you have decent overwatch plus lots of attacks in combat; if you don't get charged you can move next turn, shoot with pistols and flamers then charge and get stuck in.

The unit can still be a threat to armour with all of them having krak grenades, and even if they get shot off the table before they reach combat the unit is still a rhino and ten power armoured bodies for about 200 points. I don't think that's too bad and it ticks your box for chaos marines with chainswords!

 

[Jacht]

As a lover of the fist/chainsword/axe/general bludgeoning implement over the projectile (unless that projectile is an axe or hammer; see Arjac) I can promise you that while the metal boxes will keep your unit safe them not being allowed to charge after disembarking (or the turn following being forced to disembark via wrecked or explodes results on the vehicle damage table) will be enough to hobble them almost entirely as an assault unit. A Rhino will keep them safe right up until you deliver them to the thick of the enemy then they'll take a full turn of shooting, risk being charged themselves, or having their prey move too far away (maybe into terrain) for a 6" footslogger to keep up with before they get to do what they're there for. It's tragic, I know.

Are you open to Forgeworld options for getting your beloved chainswords into combat without the embarrassment of tripping over their toes as they get out of their metal boxes?

Otherwise a beefed up 20 man blob will make it but not full strength. Keep in mind the list supporting units like these are almost more important than the units themselves because they have to obscure target priority for your opponent.

EDIT: Or play your army modeled as is but out of the Blood Angel Codex :biggrin:

I can't bring myself to play space marines of any chapter... Chaos for life. I played them in fantasy as well

Your explanation of the rhino's faults makes sense. My thought process was to incorporate them into a rush list. For example, if I ran the daeomonkin codex, I would throw in double maulerfiends, a gorepack, and perhaps a unit of bloodletters to deepstrike in their zone. Ideally the scouting hounds and maulerfiends would present as better targets as the rhinos flat out turn 1 and disembark turn 2.

Using the CDM codex, I could still run the maulers with spawn/bikes, or perhaps Huron to infiltrate the blob.

Overall I do think Khorne makes more sense, as the sacrificial units I throw at the opponent early can make a return on their investment as blood tithes, giving +1 attack and FnP to my marines. I am still up in the air though.

On the Forge World stuff, absolutely! From what I have read, the Kharybdis Assault Claw seems tailor made for such a list, with one giant drawback; price. It costs more than a land raider. Can you think of a way to incorporate that into a list? It seems to hold 20, so 19 csm + DA or something could be juicy.

I haven't been able to find updated rules for the dreadclaw, but people have said it sucks for some reason. Any information you have on it would be helpful.

And I appreciate the response!

 

[Jacht]

How about compromising with bolter, bolt pistol and CCW? I feel like you could make a decent unit of ten, give them two flamers and maybe a power weapon for the champion and stick them in a rhino. On the turn they disembark you have bolters and flamers to force a bunch of saves/scythe down light infantry; if you then get charged you have decent overwatch plus lots of attacks in combat; if you don't get charged you can move next turn, shoot with pistols and flamers then charge and get stuck in.

The unit can still be a threat to armour with all of them having krak grenades, and even if they get shot off the table before they reach combat the unit is still a rhino and ten power armoured bodies for about 200 points. I don't think that's too bad and it ticks your box for chaos marines with chainswords!

I wasn't considering this, because in my head, it made their cost prohibitive. +2 pts a model would mean +60 if I run the three ten man squads in this example. They could possibly make those points back upon disembarking with their increased firepower, however.

Hrm, thinking about it, it's starting to sound better. They are approaching the "why not just take zerkers" point level, but I don't think they quite reach it. Zerkers only befefits are +1 WS and Furious charge from what I remember.

So I have something to go off of. If I use the Kharybdis like the previous poster said, I could run a 20 man blob without bolters, and then perhaps a couple rhinos with 10 men with bolters/ccw. I don't think I can fit that into 1500, so it's looking more and more like at least 1750.

 

[Mossy Toes]

They are approaching the "why not just take zerkers" point level, but I don't think they quite reach it. Zerkers only befefits are +1 WS and Furious charge from what I remember.

Fearless, too, but yeah, not much.

If you get a big blob of 20-odd Slaaneshi CSM, you basically have to run a Lord with it, then you have a many-hundreds of points block that a single big walker, Knight, Wraithknight, squad of Wraiths, or Thunderwolf cav will just walk all over. Plus it's easy to kite, moving only at infantry speeds across the board without the aforementioned Kharybdis.

I have been solidly impressed with the Daemonkin 10-in-a-rhino route, but as a Malice army it might be hard to wave away the Blood Tithe and the summoned Khornate daemons.

The 3-weapon kit is worth the points, as far as I'm concerned--the flexibility of bolters or bolt pistols as necessary is quite useful. I mean, in a casual list that's built around CSM at least--we may not have ATSKNF, but we can store a couple tricks up our sleeves...

 

[Squire]

I wasn't considering this, because in my head, it made their cost prohibitive. +2 pts a model would mean +60 if I run the three ten man squads in this example. They could possibly make those points back upon disembarking with their increased firepower, however.

Hrm, thinking about it, it's starting to sound better. They are approaching the "why not just take zerkers" point level, but I don't think they quite reach it. Zerkers only befefits are +1 WS and Furious charge from what I remember.

So I have something to go off of. If I use the Kharybdis like the previous poster said, I could run a 20 man blob without bolters, and then perhaps a couple rhinos with 10 men with bolters/ccw. I don't think I can fit that into 1500, so it's looking more and more like at least 1750.

Actually only +54 points on three ten man squads because the champions come with all three weapons already :so_happy:

I like the flexibility of bolter, BP and CCW because it means the turn you disembark from a rhino you get a meaningful shooting phase, and you don't have to feel bad about not rushing towards the enemy if you want to hold an objective. It's not a lot of points to pay to give you more options on the table, and from a fluff perspective a CSM with more weapons is cooler!

 

[DaisyDuke]

Think you want to check this out

A chaos marine should always pack the triple threat!

 

[ntaw]

^ that is actually what I was going to bring up. I know a guy that runs dual KACs and messes people up with them (though he uses Terminators not this swanky little Formation).

 

[Jacht]

Think you want to check this out
View attachment 959970170

A chaos marine should always pack the triple threat!

That is sexy as hell. Although I really don't want to run zerks... Perhaps 19 CCW Marines and a lord/Dark apostle for his buffs. It's so expensive, but dropping 20 people in someone's face sounds fucking great!

 

[DaisyDuke]

The k bomb with that formation has the best of both worlds, drop pod reliability and first turn assault.
Doesn't matter what points you play 20 bezerkers assaulting turn 1 is going to hurt any one. Plus the pod has some OK shooting.

 

[Jacht]

Fearless, too, but yeah, not much.

If you get a big blob of 20-odd Slaaneshi CSM, you basically have to run a Lord with it, then you have a many-hundreds of points block that a single big walker, Knight, Wraithknight, squad of Wraiths, or Thunderwolf cav will just walk all over. Plus it's easy to kite, moving only at infantry speeds across the board without the aforementioned Kharybdis.

I have been solidly impressed with the Daemonkin 10-in-a-rhino route, but as a Malice army it might be hard to wave away the Blood Tithe and the summoned Khornate daemons.

The 3-weapon kit is worth the points, as far as I'm concerned--the flexibility of bolters or bolt pistols as necessary is quite useful. I mean, in a casual list that's built around CSM at least--we may not have ATSKNF, but we can store a couple tricks up our sleeves...

Yeah I'm disliking the blob idea more and more.

I actually have ideas for translating all the Khorne stuff into Malal. I am going for a Germanic Barbarian vibe. Lots of furs, icy/snow bases, and a few champs here and there with the big beard spacewolf heads. According to the scant lore actually written by that guy that GW fired years ago, the followers of Malal are cannibals. They eat what they kill. So, blood tithes could represent eating people Perhaps they also eat their brothers when they die and absorb their strength. As far as the vehicle tithes... I'll think of something.

I also have quite a few ideas for Malal Daemons. I am already converting a Doombull for a Daemon Prince. At the moment I am attempting to sculpt some power armor plates to take away the fantasy feel, as well as constructing wings (which is taking ages! I'm making individual feathers). My Juggerlord is actually going to ride a Gorebeast from the fantasy Gorebeast Chariot. I never really liked the juggernaut model, and the beast lends itself to the organic theme. If I ever use Bloodletters I am going to convert some Beastmen Gor. I mean, bloodletters tranlsate 1:1 to fantasy anyway. I just have to make some two handed ice swords or something. It seems pretty easy to make with greenstuff, as ice can be pretty 'rusticly' made as long as you paint it correctly.

I rambled a bit off topic, heh. My point is I think I can make it work.

 

[Jacht]

The k bomb with that formation has the best of both worlds, drop pod reliability and first turn assault.
Doesn't matter what points you play 20 bezerkers assaulting turn 1 is going to hurt any one. Plus the pod has some OK shooting.

That does sound painful... Maybe I can convert up some 'zerks that I actually like. it is around 700 points or so though, which limits supporting units. Hrm..

 

[ntaw]

Maybe I can convert up some 'zerks that I actually like.

So long as they have the right weapons in their hands they can be whatever you want them to be! I've seen some pretty wicked count-as stuff from some of the Chaos players in my group. One even sculpted his own greater daemon of Nurgle and it looks awesome (being the massive blob of gross that it is).

 

[Jacht]

So long as they have the right weapons in their hands they can be whatever you want them to be! I've seen some pretty wicked count-as stuff from some of the Chaos players in my group. One even sculpted his own greater daemon of Nurgle and it looks awesome (being the massive blob of gross that it is).

I might just put Chaos Warrior helms on them and give them the cloaks. It would make the most of the box and would do away with those silly berserker helms. I wasn't planning on cult troops but I think I could work with that setup.