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Color me not shocked in the least.

From: George W. Bush Defends PRISM: 'I Put That Program In Place To Protect The Country'

Former President George W. Bush defended PRISM, the Internet spying program that began under his administration but remained secret until The Washington Post and The Guardian revealed its existence last month.
"I put that program in place to protect the country. One of the certainties was that civil liberties were guaranteed," Bush told CNN in an interview airing Monday. "I think there needs to be a balance, and as the president explained, there is a proper balance."


PRISM began under Bush in 2007 and has continued under the Obama administration. The program allows the National Security Administration to collect internet and email data from the nation's biggest technology companies.


Bush spoke with CNN from Zambia, where he and his wife, Laura, are renovating a health clinic. The comments were his first since news about PRISM was made public, and his reflexive, nonspecific defense of the program will likely add to critics' case that it was approved with little oversight or debate.


Bush also said that Edward Snowden, who leaked the existence of the program to the newspapers and is currently believed to be in the transit zone of the Moscow airport, had harmed national security.


When asked if he is a traitor, Bush said, "I know he damaged the country."
 

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All they're gonna get off me is german trannies getting gangraped by thai ladyboys and that I enjoy playing warhammer. "They know my credit card though"; what they going to do with it, go shopping on Amazon?
That actually sums up my feelings about it all. What are they going to do about my completely legal personal life? Absolutely nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh I just posted this because I find it funny that Obama is being blasted for something Bush started again.
 

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Oh I just posted this because I find it funny that Obama is being blasted for something Bush started again.
I'm not blaming anyone (as I said, I'm personally fine with it), but I think the ones doing the blaming (at least ought to be) blaming Obama for not stopping it if they're blaming him for anything.
 

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TBH I would be more shocked if the NSA wasnt doing PRISM before it became offically sanctioned by the president in 2007.
 

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Angryman
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I hope they have something similar here in aus. As mentioned previously, they will note I have an interest in 40k, jaguar cars and cycling, and I generally pay my bills on time and am now divorced and happy. Oh no, most people I know already know all that about me.
 

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They can know whatever they want about me, as long as they don't try to stop me. :aggressive:
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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The thing is, even if most people haven't ever done a single thing that they wouldn't want anyone knowing about (which I find hard to believe...even if something isn't illegal it can still be embarrassing, could still potentially get you fired, cause you personal problems, etc), that doesn't mean people who DO have things they don't want the government knowing about are bad people who deserve whatever they get.

The thing about this program is that it opens up the potential for abuse and selective enforcement.

Sure, 98% of the people may have nothing to worry about...unless they start speaking out against the government.

Now suddenly all their records are on display. Are you sure you did all your taxes properly last year? Didn't forget to claim that scratch ticket winner you called your brother to brag about last summer? You sure that home renovation you did yourself was totally up to code when you called your uncle the handyman for advice on it? You didn't text your gaming buddies about finding a collection of PDFs for old, out of print game books? You didn't download a single MP3 you shouldn't have or torrented an episode of your favorite show that the DVR forgot to record?

Even if you personally aren't guilty of any small, petty little infractions...do you feel that your best friend who does some of those things from time to time deserves to be suddenly targeted with fines and jail time simply because he called his brother to bitch about how much he hates the president?

Or worse...what if you have a friend that, unbeknownst to you, likes to make his own fireworks for the 4th of July...well, now you have hundreds of calls to and from a suspected bomb maker on yoru record. If he gets busted with a sack of illegal explosives on his way to a picknick, now suddenly you get pulled out of work by men in suits with serious questions. Ok, fine, you didn't do anything...but now you're under federal investigation. your boss would rather not have that kind of heat around or be associated with someone who palls around with terrorists. You;re ultimately cleared, but now you need a new job.

Well, that could happen. Not necessarily that it is happening now (though there are a few cases that suggest otherwise), but it could. You may trust this administration, but what about the next one? What if another 9/11 happens and the nation goes security-mad and uber-patriotic again?

I'm not losing much sleep over it myself because it's already been going on and as much as I hate it there;s not much I can really do...but it is disgusting.

We have a right to privacy, and we have the presumption of innocence. Or at least we're supposed to.
What's wrong with requiring the government to get a warrant from a judge and demonstrate reasonable grounds for suspicion before having access to pretty much everything you say and do?
 

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We have a right to privacy, and we have the presumption of innocence. Or at least we're supposed to.
What's wrong with requiring the government to get a warrant from a judge and demonstrate reasonable grounds for suspicion before having access to pretty much everything you say and do?
:goodpost:

The better question is why are people so keen to give up liberties for a little bit of comfort and security?
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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"Live free or die" wasn't originally the title of a bruce willis movie.

"The terrorists hate us for our freedom!" So...the plan is to give away all our freedom so they don't hate us anymore?
 

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Overegging the pudding there there a bit.

'Freedom' equating to filtering information going through a series of checks and buffers to locate particular words or sayings? Sorry, I don't buy that the government is spending spending x-million dollars a year to pay the wages of a ton of the best and brightest techno-geeks within the country to look for people who have been downloading Warhammer PDF's.



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No, they're not. But you missed my point.

Like I said, once you DO get on their radar, like for being politically outspoken, THEN they have all the reason in the world to go digging for dirty laundry.

Any vocal opponent to whatever current administration has PRISM and the will to use it will he extremely vulnerable to reprisal.

Speak out against the president, protest whatever current policy they;re trying to push, etc, and next thing you know every tiny infraction in your life is being scraped up and thrown in your face.

Not saying it's happening now, but shit like this makes it a real possibility.

And again, nobody has bothered answering why we can't just require them to get a warrant before searching for you through this database, or before gathering the info at all.

What's wrong with Due Process?

Considering Brits don't even trust their policemen with handguns, I'm surprised we're not hearing more sympathy/outrage from the UK
 

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Galahad nailed this one. It blows me away that people assume that because they aren't doing anything illegal that it's alright for their government to spy on them. Think that some of that information can't be used to defraud, extort, blackmail, engage in insider trading? There is a lot of legal information that people spying on you can abuse to hurt you and others. Anyone not familiar with existing abuses of power in government? Sorry to compliment your post G! I don't mean to discredit you haha

Bush enacted prism, and it's no surprise considering the NSA data collection center was started before obama got into office. So Bush starts prism, after Clinton started the carnivore program and one year before obama gets into the white house. Doesn't that give obama about five and a half years of not doing anything about the program except to use it Scofield? In charge of everything responsible for nothing right? Bush was a big government republican who spent like a drunken sailor too. That was then, this is now.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To be honest if your connected to anything electronic that takes information, it is out there for people to find and take. The only way to be truly private is to live on some random island with nothing tech wise. If you have a bank account, any credit, a subscription of any sort or even a Social Security Number you are not private and any form of privacy you think you have is illusion.


PRISM is just the latest one, this is nothing new, and it won't ever stop.
 

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I can deal with this information existing and even being collected someplace. It;s almost impossible not to collect some of this (the metadata from phone calls for example, is logged at the phone company as a matter of course)

What bothers me is the lack of due process involved to access it. If district attorney wants to tap my phone lines he needs to show a judge enough reasonable suspicion to get him to sign a warrant.

If the NSA wants to tap my phone they just have to type my name into a search box and click a button.

I'm fine with the government being able to listen to phonecalls, see web traffic, etc for suspected terrorists and interstate criminals and the like...but they should still have to prove their suspicions enough to get a warrant.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Supposedly PRISM just collects metadata, which is faceless until they go for a specific number. As in until you fuck up and they search for your phone number specifically, it is just a massive list of numbers
 

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Because it's impossible to find out a person's phone number, right? :p

Besides, that's just the tip of it. They have more than just numbers. And the numbers are anything but faceless.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Again I just shrug at this, when it comes down to it, the only way to stop this is to cut yourself off from this century.
 

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I think you're missing the point, which was that there's a difference between this data existing and the government being able to access it freely and without due process.

In the latter case you can stop it by making the government go back to playing by the constitution...which won;t happen until people stop thinking "I don;t do anythingillegal so therefore it;s fine."
 
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