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Discussion Starter #1
This is kind of a reverse rant so sorry if it goes on but I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet

Can I just say totally sincerely and un-sarcastically: well done GW.

Over the last couple years I have constantly seen people complaining about rules not being competitive, prices being too much and GW only really caring about money and forcing it out of us. But the last few months have felt like a total U-turn, and certainly for me has lead to me buying more from them rather than trying to Ebay it.

We have had a massive boom in really good value for money box sets that contain models everyone would want if they were playing that army (see ALL start collecting boxes that generally lead to savings of around 40%) as well as cheap boxes containing the models to formations.

A heck tonne more one off models to be included in said boxsets (albeit becoming more widely available now)

The return of specialist games - it feels like every month there is a new boxed game that I want with some pretty gorgeous miniatures that would make some really nice fulffy additions to mainstream armies, not to mention how much cheaper it is to start HH now with the betrayal at Calth, and the return of Warhammer Quest in a few weeks I'm sure will be very well recieved. Granted I don't know anything about the rules in these boxes, but hey the models are pretty and versatile.

GW are listening to their customers and making rules that people want to play with - AoS getting a point system will be huge for the game, as I know a lot more people are likely to be into it with pick up games becoming much easier, and I really needed a good reason to justify buying some of those incredible new minis.

Warhammer Fest actually becoming like the Games days of old with gaming tables and demos rather than a massive shop you have to pay to get into.

But most importantly FAQs, that not only are being done, but are being done based on questions we have asked and redrafted to ensure everything is clear.

From what I have gathered from store managers this has largely come about from the new CEO who while won't cut prices (understandably) but is still wanting to make groups of minis value for money, and he actually plays the game!

So things are looking up, and I for one feel much happier about the community - heck this is the first proper post I've made in months and I'm actually working on my armies once more. Has anyone else found anything extra I have missed off? Do you guys even agree? Or am I just being massively naive.
 

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i know gw are releasing alot of stuff atm but its all imperial bonus and that makes me very unhappy where is the chaos codex to let them be useable again where are all the formations and new models for none space marine players
i have said before and it still holds so much its getting to a point where all ppl might as well play marines
 

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Discussion Starter #3
See I would personally disagree with tha, I mean yeah there has been a big new supplement released, but also look at all hte campaign books that have come out with formations for generally a marine army and some other xenos army (if not more than 1) - in fact I remember seeing some pretty tasty looking chaos formations in one of them somewhere? But yeah at the end of the day when 6 of the 15 main armies are marines there are always gonna be a lot of releases for them.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Hear! Hear! I agree wholeheartedly; GW is doing a magnificent job, and I hope they continue.
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It is nice that they are backing down/away from certain things - such as $50 codexs.

However the years of asshatery that GW has done recently has given the company a lot of bad karma between them and the rest of the guys at the FLGS who I play with.

Once they allow you to order FW books (for cheap-ish) strait from the GW site I will be happier; I would prefer that GW would at least allow for FW character sets to be purchasable without making an international purchase... (Ouch on the credit card).

Edit: Also I wish that they would condense all of the material into one book each year for newer formations & stuffs that were released via the campaign supplements; that would be nice - so that you don't need to have 5+ books to have ALL of the rules for a given faction.
 

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I'm pretty stoked on how GW have been changing and involving what fans have been pining for in plastic for years. It's a slow process and starts with the biggest sellers and blasts those factions repeatedly because $$$ but it's happening. They're even trying to make Fliers more relevant, I'm loving the new dogfight phase. I now have a reason to own two Stormravens aside from that I got a sweet deal on the second one.

Keep it rolling. I'm curious to see the final draft of the BRB FAQs though after the slam fest that the internet has had over it. The true test to see if they're listening I suppose. I also like how they justified some of their answers even; like with blast templates hitting multiple levels in a terrain feature.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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I'm totally with you - On certain aspects.

I really enjoy their new approach to the FAQ's, the starting interaction with their customers, the specialization games and the whole modern approach to their games. Hell, them making a point system to AoS where they talk to the big tournaments about it? Genius! I am clapping my hands in excitement!

However, they are still HORRIBLE at balancing 40k; Case and point is the new Space Marine psychic powers who are laughably overpowered that I don't even know where to begin. The FAQ even buffed Grav (because we needed that) so that they can now take down voidshields. I am becoming a grumpy old man in regards to the rules, as I am sick and tired of Space Marines getting a new car whenever any other codex get's a lollipop. As long as they twist the game in the favor of their little favorite army, they are slowly turning people towards that one army so that 40k will become 30k; The kids edition.

I applaud their new direction and I love it - But they still need to get a grip on the game. Customer interaction will only get you so far, if your game is being twisted because of bad rules and blatant favoritism.
 

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If they updated a non PA based faction equally each time they gave the PA a boost I would be much more impressed. While I like that they are pushing out updated rules faster the fact that those rules are pricy is annoying, especially after seeing how well other companies are doing releasing the rules for free.

If GW just tossed the rules for each unit into the boxes and posted the core rules online for free I would be a happy camper. They still could release books full of the fluff and painting and shit. People would still buy those up in a heartbeat.
 

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The one thing I wish they'd get better about is more universal model kits. Still a bit miffed I can't buy a generic 'space marines' box and get the bits to make a Chaplain, Librarian, Apothecary, Techmarine, etc.

Still stoked about how these bargain boxes are coming along.
 

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Rattlehead
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I don't get how I'm so hilariously bad at Space Marines that I have really tough games against Dark Eldar and Tyranids. I usually lose to the Dark Eldar; Tyranids have recently had a list change from my regular opponent and I haven't fought that yet (except with my Guard, who've lost every game against it).

Oh, wait, no; I forgot, my opponent is really good and plays games instead of being a little crying bitch babby on the internet, which is why he kicks ass with Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines, and the OMG so fucking unbeatable GW favouritism omg Space Marines are... kind of average other than Battle Company. 'B-but the new psychic powers!!' So what the new psychic powers, other than Grav Centurions what are you going to use the new psychic powers on? And how are you fitting that many psychic powers in the one slot in a Drop Pod that Grav Centurions don't use up? 'B-but deathstars omg so powerful!' Space Marines can't do a Deathstar, what the fuck are you smoking? They can ally in Thunderwolves and Black Knights and make a Deathstar (although with the Librarius Conclave being rightfully nerfed into the ground in the draft FAQ, that may be soon to change), but guess what? Dark Eldar can ally in Eldar and beat the shit out of everyone. Tyranids can ally in a Decurion of Necrons if you really want. Allies don't mean shit when talking about a book's power level other than the caveat that Imperials do get more bonuses from allies than most other races except Dark Eldar.

GW does a U-turn and puts out amazing stuff with the Start Collecting boxes and interacting with customers and a huge FAQ that fixes loads of stuff in the meta, and what happens? B-but the FAQ makes Grav affect Void Shield! Fuck you, Games Workshop! You fixed the Librarius and allying in Drop Pods for a Culexus or War Convocation and finally clarified that 'a unit from this detachment' affects attached characters and finally fixed a load of stupid shit like Flyers auto-crashing if they were stunned and you stood 18" in front of it and not being able to Jink against Beams and whether Psychic Shriek rolls to Hit and being able to actually summon Bloodthirsters from Malefic post-Curse of the Wulfen and making 'best save' the owning player's discretion so you can take a re-rollable 'worse' save instead of your 'better' save or choose to take a worse save to lose models to make a charge longer etc. and what happens? How do people respond to this FAQ? 'Grav affects Void Shields, WTF Games Workshop you're terrible and horrible and I fucking hate you and I'm burning all my models because you're so terrible and gay and everyone is against me, how dare you make Space Marines better and give us NOTHING ELSE in return, you just HATE everyone that's not Space Marines and I can't possibly win with my insert faction x here army and it's not because I'm terrible and spend all my time bitching on the forums instead of practicing, it's YOUR fault GW'.

The number one response I see to everything GW does is 'Well, that's okay, but it really sucks they haven't done X', and it's going to stay that way when we get new plastic Greater Daemons because they don't have Grav Cannons and a rule that lets you auto-win the game, and a totally redone Sisters faction because well, it was kinda okay that they did Sisters but what we really meant when we bitched for eleven solid years was a Hrud codex; I think it's a foreboding sign that GW's so out of touch that they think the community wants Sisters of Battle instead of Hrud, man, I can't see them lasting much longer.

So, no. Fuck you, community, because GW is brilliant. And Rountree's salary is a big fucking improvement on yours to prove it.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I don't get how I'm so hilariously bad at Space Marines that I have really tough games against Dark Eldar and Tyranids. I usually lose to the Dark Eldar; Tyranids have recently had a list change from my regular opponent and I haven't fought that yet (except with my Guard, who've lost every game against it).

Oh, wait, no; I forgot, my opponent is really good and plays games instead of being a little crying bitch babby on the internet, which is why he kicks ass with Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines, and the OMG so fucking unbeatable GW favouritism omg Space Marines are... kind of average other than Battle Company. 'B-but the new psychic powers!!' So what the new psychic powers, other than Grav Centurions what are you going to use the new psychic powers on? And how are you fitting that many psychic powers in the one slot in a Drop Pod that Grav Centurions don't use up? 'B-but deathstars omg so powerful!' Space Marines can't do a Deathstar, what the fuck are you smoking? They can ally in Thunderwolves and Black Knights and make a Deathstar (although with the Librarius Conclave being rightfully nerfed into the ground in the draft FAQ, that may be soon to change), but guess what? Dark Eldar can ally in Eldar and beat the shit out of everyone. Tyranids can ally in a Decurion of Necrons if you really want. Allies don't mean shit when talking about a book's power level other than the caveat that Imperials do get more bonuses from allies than most other races except Dark Eldar.

GW does a U-turn and puts out amazing stuff with the Start Collecting boxes and interacting with customers and a huge FAQ that fixes loads of stuff in the meta, and what happens? B-but the FAQ makes Grav affect Void Shield! Fuck you, Games Workshop! You fixed the Librarius and allying in Drop Pods for a Culexus or War Convocation and finally clarified that 'a unit from this detachment' affects attached characters and finally fixed a load of stupid shit like Flyers auto-crashing if they were stunned and you stood 18" in front of it and not being able to Jink against Beams and whether Psychic Shriek rolls to Hit and being able to actually summon Bloodthirsters from Malefic post-Curse of the Wulfen and making 'best save' the owning player's discretion so you can take a re-rollable 'worse' save instead of your 'better' save or choose to take a worse save to lose models to make a charge longer etc. and what happens? How do people respond to this FAQ? 'Grav affects Void Shields, WTF Games Workshop you're terrible and horrible and I fucking hate you and I'm burning all my models because you're so terrible and gay and everyone is against me, how dare you make Space Marines better and give us NOTHING ELSE in return, you just HATE everyone that's not Space Marines and I can't possibly win with my insert faction x here army and it's not because I'm terrible and spend all my time bitching on the forums instead of practicing, it's YOUR fault GW'.

The number one response I see to everything GW does is 'Well, that's okay, but it really sucks they haven't done X', and it's going to stay that way when we get new plastic Greater Daemons because they don't have Grav Cannons and a rule that lets you auto-win the game, and a totally redone Sisters faction because well, it was kinda okay that they did Sisters but what we really meant when we bitched for eleven solid years was a Hrud codex; I think it's a foreboding sign that GW's so out of touch that they think the community wants Sisters of Battle instead of Hrud, man, I can't see them lasting much longer.

So, no. Fuck you, community, because GW is brilliant. And Rountree's salary is a big fucking improvement on yours to prove it.


Shit just got real. :clapping:
 

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I too am relieved and impressed at their effort so far. My biggest hurdle at the moment is getting my gaming group to believe that the FAQ is real. I just need to wait a week or so for the "official" FAQ release version so that we can use these rules. Not sure exactly what the gaming group is holding out for, but I don't think they can accept this reality where GW releases a thorough FAQ.
 

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Thordis
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I don't get how I'm so hilariously bad at Space Marines that I have really tough games against Dark Eldar and Tyranids. I usually lose to the Dark Eldar; Tyranids have recently had a list change from my regular opponent and I haven't fought that yet (except with my Guard, who've lost every game against it).

Oh, wait, no; I forgot, my opponent is really good and plays games instead of being a little crying bitch babby on the internet, which is why he kicks ass with Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines, and the OMG so fucking unbeatable GW favouritism omg Space Marines are... kind of average other than Battle Company. 'B-but the new psychic powers!!' So what the new psychic powers, other than Grav Centurions what are you going to use the new psychic powers on? And how are you fitting that many psychic powers in the one slot in a Drop Pod that Grav Centurions don't use up? 'B-but deathstars omg so powerful!' Space Marines can't do a Deathstar, what the fuck are you smoking? They can ally in Thunderwolves and Black Knights and make a Deathstar (although with the Librarius Conclave being rightfully nerfed into the ground in the draft FAQ, that may be soon to change), but guess what? Dark Eldar can ally in Eldar and beat the shit out of everyone. Tyranids can ally in a Decurion of Necrons if you really want. Allies don't mean shit when talking about a book's power level other than the caveat that Imperials do get more bonuses from allies than most other races except Dark Eldar.

GW does a U-turn and puts out amazing stuff with the Start Collecting boxes and interacting with customers and a huge FAQ that fixes loads of stuff in the meta, and what happens? B-but the FAQ makes Grav affect Void Shield! Fuck you, Games Workshop! You fixed the Librarius and allying in Drop Pods for a Culexus or War Convocation and finally clarified that 'a unit from this detachment' affects attached characters and finally fixed a load of stupid shit like Flyers auto-crashing if they were stunned and you stood 18" in front of it and not being able to Jink against Beams and whether Psychic Shriek rolls to Hit and being able to actually summon Bloodthirsters from Malefic post-Curse of the Wulfen and making 'best save' the owning player's discretion so you can take a re-rollable 'worse' save instead of your 'better' save or choose to take a worse save to lose models to make a charge longer etc. and what happens? How do people respond to this FAQ? 'Grav affects Void Shields, WTF Games Workshop you're terrible and horrible and I fucking hate you and I'm burning all my models because you're so terrible and gay and everyone is against me, how dare you make Space Marines better and give us NOTHING ELSE in return, you just HATE everyone that's not Space Marines and I can't possibly win with my insert faction x here army and it's not because I'm terrible and spend all my time bitching on the forums instead of practicing, it's YOUR fault GW'.

The number one response I see to everything GW does is 'Well, that's okay, but it really sucks they haven't done X', and it's going to stay that way when we get new plastic Greater Daemons because they don't have Grav Cannons and a rule that lets you auto-win the game, and a totally redone Sisters faction because well, it was kinda okay that they did Sisters but what we really meant when we bitched for eleven solid years was a Hrud codex; I think it's a foreboding sign that GW's so out of touch that they think the community wants Sisters of Battle instead of Hrud, man, I can't see them lasting much longer.

So, no. Fuck you, community, because GW is brilliant. And Rountree's salary is a big fucking improvement on yours to prove it.
I am going to agree with all of this.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would definitely agree @MidnightSun nothing can be fixed all at once, and there is always going to be something that isn't going to make people happy, I think the main point is that GW are taking a massive step in the right direction, and at the end of the day they are a business, of course they are going to do things that are gonna make you buy stuff from them like release stuff for their most popular army.

I've noticed as well that a bit of patience generally leads to good things, often a release is messy then later on they collate stuff either into bundles or just make stuff a compendium - see Kauyon and the new Tau Codex, or the Ad Mech bundles. At the end of the day GW are going to want to make money, its just refreshing how they are listening to customers on the best way to do that.

Also something I forgot off the original post - paperback books returning after an initial release if you want a cheaper option.
 

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I don't get how I'm so hilariously bad at Space Marines that I have really tough games against Dark Eldar and Tyranids. I usually lose to the Dark Eldar; Tyranids have recently had a list change from my regular opponent and I haven't fought that yet (except with my Guard, who've lost every game against it)....
Maybe you should go back to playing orks then, apparently you were super awesome with them. :grin:
 

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Rattlehead
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Maybe you should go back to playing orks then, apparently you were super awesome with them. :grin:
The joke being that I'm pretty good at Space Marines and can beat the shit out of FLGS-tier players but my friend who plays CSM, DE and Tyranids can beat the shit out of me with his 'bad' armies because he's bloody good at the game.

But I was better with Orks than Space Marines, I'll freely admit :p
 
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