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Discussion Starter #1
So I`ve just gotten back into Warhammer Fantasy, after a smallish -Black Library- break, and wanted to take up a Warriors of Chaos idea I`ve had for a while. Generally something including plenty of machines, so perhaps a Brass Scorpion and Nurgle Plague Hulk as mounts/stand in`s for Shaggoths, you know? Nothing massively competative, perhaps more for aesthetic purposes. :victory:

In contradiction to that, I`m interested how the schematics of 8th have changed a typical Warriors force. Is Tzeentchian/Nurglesque magic as effective? Are Daemon Princes more viable now? (No Chaos Armour is still.... ugh...) What of giant blocks of Marauders? Are Hellcannons a more viable rare? Are Warhounds still effective against gunlines? Are Forsaken more viable?

Just some general pointers guys:)
 

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Tzeentch magic is quite viable still I'd say. A level 4 can get off all the spells with relatively few power dice, and the spells are still useful. One in particular that stands out is Treason of Tzeentch, which should be quite good against large units. Giant blocks of Marauders are also more effective, since they can actually fight back worth balls now. I'm not a WoC player, so I won't comment on the other stuff, since I haven't studied it that much.
 

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Hellcannons are worth their weight in gold now thanks to the face that there are no more partials when using templates, anything touched by the template it hit. And unlike normal stone throwers it hasn't had a strength reduction and still causes LD checks at -1.
 

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Is Tzeentchian/Nurglesque magic as effective?
id rather have tzeentch than nurgle magic becaus eits now way easier to cast gateway

Are Daemon Princes more viable now? (No Chaos Armour is still.... ugh...)
no they are still overpriced for what they do a sorcerer lord with some items is better and probebly cheaper and more durable

What of giant blocks of Marauders?
they are good i guess the are cheap and have the option for a 5+ ward in close combat
but i dont use them because their models suck

Are Hellcannons a more viable rare?
Hellcannons are worth their weight in gold now thanks to the face that there are no more partials when using templates, anything touched by the template it hit. And unlike normal stone throwers it hasn't had a strength reduction and still causes LD checks at -1.Leadership
i can only agree here

Are Warhounds still effective against gunlines?
nah they are too weak to do much the most they can do is act as meatshield and ocationaly kill some warmachine crew

Are Forsaken more viable?
they are still not a good option the points are better spend elswhere
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hellcannons seem like a good option for the Rare slot now, though they were always useful -if random- before. The model is rather badass too. I`m stuck with the option of Marauders. I mean, perhaps I`ve digested too much Games Workshop propanda, but a monsterous unit, with the Mark of Tzeentch, would surely be useful? Of course, the models are dreadful, and aesthetically, nothing ruins ranks of hulking Chaos Warriors like fleshy Orcs.

So whilst were on the topic of Chaos Warriors, are they`re any changes to the usual combinations? Two, long ranks of Khornate Warriors with dual-hand weapons, or great weapons was a classic combination in 8th. I`ve heard from members, and the GW site, that a block of Tzeentchian Warriors with shields are perfect as an ''Anvil'' unit, though with the reduction in the effectiveness of Knights, I`m not too sure what could serve as a suitable ''Hammer''. Also, the efficiency of Nurgle Warriors with Halberds and shields?

Getting Infernal Gateway with a Level 4 sounds much easier, which is a bonus, as much as I adore Magnificent Buboes sniping.
 

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as the gw should as of now never be on warriors anymore it lets them strike last while normaly they can strike first and the units could be a bit bigger for the warriors because they cant always knights can still be used as anivil they are not so strong as they used to be but they are a excelend support unit
and the point for matk of nurgle is better spend elswhere or on a difrent mark
 

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I've played with a few army compositions, both Magic heavy and Warrior spam.

Gateway is vicious in the new rules. Everyone is fielding bigger units now, so just let fly at their "main" unit. my best kill so far has been 50 (yes, 50) Bloodletters with a Herald on Juggernaut and Skulltaker with 1 Gateway cast.

Festus is also amazing, if you want to run a Nurgle theme, especially in combination with Lore of Shadow... get either spell that reduces S or T by D3 and you're laughing. Cast the shadow spell first, and then follow up with Leper and watch the entire unit fall over. His giving a big block of Warriors Regen and Poison is also very sexy.

As of 8th Ed, I wouldn't give Great Weapons to anything. Really. They are overcosted now that you cannot strike first ever.

Both builds seem to work - Magic heavy is flexible, but Warrior spam is more reliable.

Hellcannons are good, and so are Warshrines, because you have a big block of warriors to benefit from it.

Hope that helped a little!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I've played with a few army compositions, both Magic heavy and Warrior spam.

Gateway is vicious in the new rules. Everyone is fielding bigger units now, so just let fly at their "main" unit. my best kill so far has been 50 (yes, 50) Bloodletters with a Herald on Juggernaut and Skulltaker with 1 Gateway cast.

Festus is also amazing, if you want to run a Nurgle theme, especially in combination with Lore of Shadow... get either spell that reduces S or T by D3 and you're laughing. Cast the shadow spell first, and then follow up with Leper and watch the entire unit fall over. His giving a big block of Warriors Regen and Poison is also very sexy.

As of 8th Ed, I wouldn't give Great Weapons to anything. Really. They are overcosted now that you cannot strike first ever.

Both builds seem to work - Magic heavy is flexible, but Warrior spam is more reliable.

Hellcannons are good, and so are Warshrines, because you have a big block of warriors to benefit from it.

Hope that helped a little!
I`ve been considering a Nurglesque themed Warriors army for a while now, for more than simply the plethora of painting and converting opportunities availible to followers of Plague Lord :). I`m not sure how my (Well... Horus`s) traditional Sorcerer Lord with Skinhidden Plate, Glaive of Putrefaction, Palanquin and Mark of Nurgle will fare, but Nurgle magic has always seemed more devious than the Lore of Tzeentch. Sure, Gateway seems tantalising nowadays, but if your opponent knows your going for it, they`ll just buff scrolls (To which I presume Dispell Scrolls still work in such a manner?)

I was thinking, for your average point list, a block of 2x10 Warriors of Khorne with additional hand weapons, and a much larger block of 30-40 with Mark of Nurgle, Festus, and possibly Banner of Rage, to serve as an ''Anvil'' Unit.

Onto that, I haven`t a clue for Specials. Knights were traditional, but seem to have been scraped.

What of Daemon Princes, any better? Or still a waste of a Lord?
 

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you can now only have 1 dispell scroll
 

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Sure, Gateway seems tantalising nowadays, but if your opponent knows your going for it, they`ll just buff scrolls (To which I presume Dispell Scrolls still work in such a manner?)
Dispel Scrolls work the same way, but as mentioned previously, only 1 per army. It's really down to personal preference for Lores, I love Shadow and Death, in addition to Tzeentch and Nurgle but they're all good. Tzeentch is a little less useful for me due to playing Daemons often, who are immune to psychology.

I was thinking, for your average point list, a block of 2x10 Warriors of Khorne with additional hand weapons, and a much larger block of 30-40 with Mark of Nurgle, Festus, and possibly Banner of Rage, to serve as an ''Anvil'' Unit.
I'm not sure about units of 10 Warriors... especially with Marks. Since it costs the same to give MoK to a unit of 30 as to a unit of 10, it seems much more cost efficient to buy less bigger units. I like my block of 30-40 Nurgle Warriors with Banner of Rage and Halberds backed up by a Warshrine... works equally well as a hammer as well as an anvil.

Onto that, I haven`t a clue for Specials. Knights were traditional, but seem to have been scraped.
Knights are still servicable, but better used for support rather than soloing the entire enemy army. If you get a hard-but-not-so-killy unit locked in the enemy front, a flank charge from knights can give you the extra 5-8 kills you need to swing that combat way back into your favour. I still want to try Forsaken though...

What of Daemon Princes, any better? Or still a waste of a Lord?
Still terrible. Worse, in fact, because Terror got nerfed. Sorry.
 

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I haven't played my Warriors of Nurgle in the new edition yet-- I've been playing in a league and my Warriors of Khorne have been my army for it. However, I think that the combination of Skinhidden Plate and the Glaive of Putrefaction will be as viable now as ever. Perhaps more so, since models now don't have a choice between a special weapon or using their hand weapon and shield. Models which might try to just tarpit the Lord by using a hand weapon and shield might now have to hit him with a halberd or great weapon instead (this came up more often than you'd imagine), and the extra toughness will make a big difference there.

I think the Mark of Nurgle is generally a more competitive mark than it was before now, too. The revisions to shooting make the -1 to hit outrageously good, since a lot more shots will be headed at the warriors than before.

I have yet to play with the hellcannon under the new rules, but I'm going to give it a try this sunday to try and help level the playing field against a Dwarf army. It's still as inaccurate as ever, but hits are exponentially more effective... so we'll see.

As for loadouts... I still think hand weapon and shield is an excellent pick for Warriors. Even Warriors of Khorne, who don't get the parry save. I've always had excellent results with units of 14 lead by a hero (for a total of a 5x3 unit). The army doesn't really operate off of rank bonuses, but the attacks from the hero and the unit coupled with an extra rank bonus (you'll lose a couple on the way in, so you'll likely only have a complete second rank) tends to be enough to chop through (or at least not lose combat-- it's awfully hard to flat out break through in one round of combat in 8th.)
 

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This might fit the Rules section better but I didn't want to start a thread for such a minor issue. But still, I'm curious.

The description of Frenzy at first says that "Frenzied troops have the Extra Attack and Immune to Psychology", but then it says that "a unit that includes one or more Frenzied models blablabla...". The question is: if there is one modell in the unit that is originally part of the unit and he has the Frenzy special rule, then does he spread the joy to the whole unit? I'm asking because if I give a Berserker Sword to my Chosen Champion, the Chosen might get a rock-solid Frenzy and I won't use up their precious magical banner slot. This could potentially lead to a say 18 strong unit of Chosen with Halberds, MoT, perma-Frenzy and Blasted Banner.

Though if it doesn't work I might just give him a Shrieking Blade and call it a day. :) Or maybe Ironcurse Icon? (ITT: Chosen and their gear)
 

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Daemon Princes suffer from the same problem that characters on monstrous mounts (dragons, manticores, etc) do: cannons wipe them out far too easily.

With warmachines no longer guessing, your single large, lone character is going to attract canonfire from turn 1, and probably be dead by turn 2-3.

Hiding behind walls and buildings is one way to get around this, but another is to take a war shrine and hide him behind it when facing cannons. Since the war shrine counts as a monstrous creature, it'll stop cannonballs.

Otherwise, I agree with the other posters. All I can add is that I believe Chaos Ogres are a far more viable unit now, and although Forsaken aren't exactly worth it, Chosen definitely are, especially if you give them the 'favour of the Gods' and have a war shrine in the list.

Also, I like giving great weapons to marauders. They're dirt cheap, and allow them to crack open anything your opponent throws at them.
 
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