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The Emperor Protects
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Nothing is certain just yet. Yes he's being set up as one of the first grand masters of the Grey Knights, but there are still years of the Heresy to go, he could still get killed before then, decide not to do it etc etc.

If he does end up being a Grey Knight, he could be Janus for all we know(I think Garro will be though), and unless they do more Knights stories after the Heresy has ended, then we'll never know.
 

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I think Garvi is still alive in the "present" 40k. I think he will be the answer to question he was asked by Mersadie Oliton , "How long do the Astartes live?". Answer over 10k years. I think he was cursed with immortality with the other Mournival brothers when they turned on each other. I think it is Loken who will eventually kill Lucius for good. In Legion of one he called him self the "undying". He said that the peace of the grave will only be his when the scales are balanced. Until Abaddon gets clipped, there will be no balance, thus he must live on.
 

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I think Garvi is still alive in the "present" 40k. I think he will be the answer to question he was asked by Mersadie Oliton , "How long do the Astartes live?". Answer over 10k years. I think he was cursed with immortality with the other Mournival brothers when they turned on each other. I think it is Loken who will eventually kill Lucius for good. In Legion of one he called him self the "undying". He said that the peace of the grave will only be his when the scales are balanced. Until Abaddon gets clipped, there will be no balance, thus he must live on.
SOOOoooooo OVER 9000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think Garvi is still alive in the "present" 40k. I think he will be the answer to question he was asked by Mersadie Oliton , "How long do the Astartes live?". Answer over 10k years. I think he was cursed with immortality with the other Mournival brothers when they turned on each other. I think it is Loken who will eventually kill Lucius for good. In Legion of one he called him self the "undying". He said that the peace of the grave will only be his when the scales are balanced. Until Abaddon gets clipped, there will be no balance, thus he must live on.

In the Grey Knights codex it mentions an undying astartes fighting in front of the Golden Throne alone to defend the Emperor. While in the codex it is referring to Anvil Thawn, could they be referring to Loken?
 

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I sincerely hope not. He's had enough special snowflake treatment without also becoming some immortal being of legend. Bring Loken back from the dead was one of the worst moves the Heresy series has made.

I very much hope he's not one of those who goes on to found/train the Grey Knights and instead meets his end during the Heresy.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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According to Khorne's Fist, Dan Abnett was adamant about the fact that Loken wasn't intended to die in 'Galaxy in Flames'.

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been a fan of how Loken was handled subsequently ("Cerberus", etc.). That having been said, I wasn't convinced that Loken had died when the building collapsed on him.
 

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In the Grey Knights codex it mentions an undying astartes fighting in front of the Golden Throne alone to defend the Emperor. While in the codex it is referring to Anvil Thawn, could they be referring to Loken?
You got a quote or a page #? I do think Loken was the first GK Eternal Warrior though.

I sincerely hope not. He's had enough special snowflake treatment without also becoming some immortal being of legend. Bring Loken back from the dead was one of the worst moves the Heresy series has made.

I very much hope he's not one of those who goes on to found/train the Grey Knights and instead meets his end during the Heresy.
If you hated this move then what will you say when they bring back Tarvitz? I will say again that the main Characters in the opening trilogy were picked because they survived. Wanting them to stay dead wont help. Ive tried it with Erebus.
 

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I sincerely hope not. He's had enough special snowflake treatment without also becoming some immortal being of legend. Bring Loken back from the dead was one of the worst moves the Heresy series has made.

I very much hope he's not one of those who goes on to found/train the Grey Knights and instead meets his end during the Heresy.
Stan lee stated in a interview once that when he created comic books he never killed off villain.
Why? Because it takes allot of effort to make a good villain.

Loken is the first character that has his inner psych opened. Having him just there to wear a red shirt is a waste. It pisses me off to no end to have characters killed off just to create terror. Which is half the reason I don't read the gaunts series.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You got a quote or a page #? I do think Loken was the first GK Eternal Warrior though.
I believe it's on Anvil Thawn's character page. I do not have the codex handy to check.

I sincerely hope not. He's had enough special snowflake treatment without also becoming some immortal being of legend. Bring Loken back from the dead was one of the worst moves the Heresy series has made.

I very much hope he's not one of those who goes on to found/train the Grey Knights and instead meets his end during the Heresy.
With how much power chaos has and the overall grim treatment humanity has I could really care less how many buffs they get. No matter how powerful a member of the impirium seems, they cannot compete with the overall power chaos has. So long as the Emperor stays incapacitated, humanity is doomed.

And he is already considered one of the forefathers of the Grey Knights.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Stan lee stated in a interview once that when he created comic books he never killed off villain.
Why? Because it takes allot of effort to make a good villain.

Loken is the first character that has his inner psych opened. Having him just there to wear a red shirt is a waste. It pisses me off to no end to have characters killed off just to create terror. Which is half the reason I don't read the gaunts series.
That seems like a very poor reason not to read the Ghosts series in my opinion. The real major character deaths are all quite well spaced out and all have more impact to character and plot development than simply 'anyone can die'.
 

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According to Khorne's Fist, Dan Abnett was adamant about the fact that Loken wasn't intended to die in 'Galaxy in Flames'.

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been a fan of how Loken was handled subsequently ("Cerberus", etc.). That having been said, I wasn't convinced that Loken had died when the building collapsed on him.
If he wasn't intended to die then his 'death' shouldn't of been written with such finality. Perhaps it was an error in another author picking up the tale and not getting the message but it seemed very final as i read it.

Stan lee stated in a interview once that when he created comic books he never killed off villain.
Why? Because it takes allot of effort to make a good villain.

Loken is the first character that has his inner psych opened. Having him just there to wear a red shirt is a waste. It pisses me off to no end to have characters killed off just to create terror. Which is half the reason I don't read the gaunts series.
I don't wish he'd stay dead so he's a 'red shirt', but rather for the narrative value of his death. Loken represented all that was good in the Astartes and the Imperium. To then have him slain by a brother, as the galaxy erupted in civil war; it was magnificent pathos and a fantastic end to that first trilogy. It sets the tone for the coming fraternal strife and represents the death of hope, of man's great dream that lies sullied in the modern Imperium. It was the moment we crossed into 40k.

Him coming back cheapens that.

With how much power chaos has and the overall grim treatment humanity has I could really care less how many buffs they get. No matter how powerful a member of the impirium seems, they cannot compete with the overall power chaos has. So long as the Emperor stays incapacitated, humanity is doomed.

And he is already considered one of the forefathers of the Grey Knights.
Considered by some fans perhaps but there's no actual concrete evidence. Sure he's one of Garro's band but he may not become a founder of the Grey Knights. I will admit it's becoming increasingly likely though.

As i said though it's not about the Imperium receiving 'a buff' it's about the integrity and power of the narrative. He had much more narrative weight and power dying then he'll ever has as another special snowflake.
 

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If he wasn't intended to die then his 'death' shouldn't of been written with such finality. Perhaps it was an error in another author picking up the tale and not getting the message but it seemed very final as i read it.
This is simply my opinion at the end of the day, but I guess I read it differently. I figured he would live because (A) he actually survived the fight with Abaddon* and (B) I kept thinking of all those damn organs that work to keep Space Marines alive... especially one whose express purpose is to keep them in a comatose healing state. :)

* And, at the end of the day, that fight was when treachery was intimately confronted: Loken and Torgaddon, the two loyalists, called Abaddon and Little Horus, the two traitors, to account for themselves. Thus, when Loken survived it, the follow-up scene where the building collapsed on him seemed redundant to me. I assumed Counter re-visiting him at that point served as a "did he, or didn't?" moment. When, two books later, Rylanor spoke of a underground (read: protected) hangar, that sealed the deal for me.

But again, just an opinion.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Stan lee stated in a interview once that when he created comic books he never killed off villain.
Why? Because it takes allot of effort to make a good villain.

Loken is the first character that has his inner psych opened. Having him just there to wear a red shirt is a waste. It pisses me off to no end to have characters killed off just to create terror. Which is half the reason I don't read the gaunts series.
I bet you don't like Game of Thrones either then. :laugh:
 

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If he wasn't intended to die then his 'death' shouldn't of been written with such finality. Perhaps it was an error in another author picking up the tale and not getting the message but it seemed very final as i read it.



I don't wish he'd stay dead so he's a 'red shirt', but rather for the narrative value of his death. Loken represented all that was good in the Astartes and the Imperium. To then have him slain by a brother, as the galaxy erupted in civil war; it was magnificent pathos and a fantastic end to that first trilogy. It sets the tone for the coming fraternal strife and represents the death of hope, of man's great dream that lies sullied in the modern Imperium. It was the moment we crossed into 40k.

Him coming back cheapens that.



Considered by some fans perhaps but there's no actual concrete evidence. Sure he's one of Garro's band but he may not become a founder of the Grey Knights. I will admit it's becoming increasingly likely though.

As i said though it's not about the Imperium receiving 'a buff' it's about the integrity and power of the narrative. He had much more narrative weight and power dying then he'll ever has as another special snowflake.
Loken represents the side of the imperium that not many see. He is a realist and one who wants to do the right thing. Everything is working against him. But yet he is incorruptible. He could have been part of horus's inner circle and became a powerful champion of chaos yet he still chooses to side with the emperor.


I bet you don't like Game of Thrones either then. :laugh:
I view GOT as a bunch of neckbeards having a game of DND It's irrelevant as to what happens.
 

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I bet you don't like Game of Thrones either then. :laugh:
I view GOT as a bunch of neckbeards having a game of DND It's irrelevant as to what happens.
Game of Thrones is VERY relevant to the topic of Loken's near death. When someone dies in GoT it is always with a witness and on screen. Ned Stark was executed in public. His head put on a pike for all to see. That is how to kill some one. The two Stark kids, Brand and Riken, were "killed" by Theon, in public but no one saw their faces, so not every one thinks they are dead. People in my circle thought the Blackfish might be dead also because of how the Red wedding went down. Since he left the room and was not shown to be killed out side, My gf told us he has to be alive. She was right. We are led to think Aria's Dance teacher dies when we last see him but don't see him actually die. That means to me he is alive. The point i'm trying to make is you don't let your characters die off screen because like Stan Lee said, they work to hard to create them to not get some value from their deaths, if they die at all. When a character does have a death off screen, it might be a real one but i am always a skeptic if i don't see a body. This whole situation is a great case to show why you need a head when you claim a death.
 

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Game of Thrones is VERY relevant to the topic of Loken's near death. When someone dies in GoT it is always with a witness and on screen. Ned Stark was executed in public. His head put on a pike for all to see. That is how to kill some one. The two Stark kids, Brand and Riken, were "killed" by Theon, in public but no one saw their faces, so not every one thinks they are dead. People in my circle thought the Blackfish might be dead also because of how the Red wedding went down. Since he left the room and was not shown to be killed out side, My gf told us he has to be alive. She was right. We are led to think Aria's Dance teacher dies when we last see him but don't see him actually die. That means to me he is alive. The point i'm trying to make is you don't let your characters die off screen because like Stan Lee said, they work to hard to create them to not get some value from their deaths, if they die at all. When a character does have a death off screen, it might be a real one but i am always a skeptic if i don't see a body. This whole situation is a great case to show why you need a head when you claim a death.
Not really what I meant by irrelevant, to me you can only introduce and kill off so many characters before it comes to a point where new guys exist just to be killed off. hence the reason why I compare it to DND.

Secondly having loken lose his memories is basically killing him off. Which is also the reason why I believe he's not going to become a grey knight.
 

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Game of Thrones is VERY relevant to the topic of Loken's near death. When someone dies in GoT it is always with a witness and on screen. Ned Stark was executed in public. His head put on a pike for all to see. That is how to kill some one. The two Stark kids, Brand and Riken, were "killed" by Theon, in public but no one saw their faces, so not every one thinks they are dead. People in my circle thought the Blackfish might be dead also because of how the Red wedding went down. Since he left the room and was not shown to be killed out side, My gf told us he has to be alive. She was right. We are led to think Aria's Dance teacher dies when we last see him but don't see him actually die. That means to me he is alive. The point i'm trying to make is you don't let your characters die off screen because like Stan Lee said, they work to hard to create them to not get some value from their deaths, if they die at all. When a character does have a death off screen, it might be a real one but i am always a skeptic if i don't see a body. This whole situation is a great case to show why you need a head when you claim a death.
I'm going to relate this to what you said about Tarvitz, earlier on in the thread. I'd say Saul Tarvitz and his lot are all likely dead. It does say that they are standing within the precentors palace as it is falling down around them. They don't even run to take cover or anything because in the words from the book "There was little point." To me, that pretty much confirms they are dead. Course, we've had this argument before and I'd rather not start that up again, so to get my point across that this is my opinion, I have highlighted and underlined "To me". Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea.... But yeah, I'd say that even though no bodies were produced, and I believe Loken was the only one recovered from the planet (though I wouldn't know, I haven't listened to the audio book, which is where Loken is confirmed to be still among the living correct?), so I would definitely say they are dead. But thats just me, though.

As for Loken, well, I think they should have kept him dead. He was injured during his fight, then a friggin building collapsed on top of him, shattering his rib cage, and driving the shards into organs and such. How does a Space Marine survive that? Being buried underneath tons of rubble, where in False Gods, IIRC (or maybe earlier on in Galaxy in Flames. I cant exactly remember which book it was in), a horde of World Eaters, along with Angron, were buried under tons of rubble, with only Angron being able to live because he's a primarch. So how the hell did Loken live through the same thing that killed so many World Eaters Astartes? That is what strikes me as odd.

What, did the Emperor himself pull Loken out of the rubble, and shamoo himself back to Terra, leaving a loyalist Astartes on a planet full of zombies, while he has amnesia? He'd be a prick if that was the case, which shouldn't come as a surprise to many of the members here. They could have picked a different astartes to fill the role, but they picked Loken. Why? Is all sense of symbolism lost on them? I guess so......
 
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