[Uveron]

I very much like it... (But I would)

Though I think there is a bit more than just tradtional PTSD going on, I think there is a huge amount of pure Hate occurring in the ranks (kind of like Milton from Office Space.. )

 

[Uveron]

I also think that in a "What If" scenario, the Iron Warriors had the potential to partially prevent the destruction of the Raven Guard and Salamanders Legions at Istvaan III. (The Iron Hands and Ferrus Manus were doomed due to their refusing to retreat). If the RG and Sallies had been able to retreat within the fortifications and sheer armoured firepower of the Iron Warriors I think they might have stood a fighting chance and Perturabo and his Legions would have been the heroes they always wanted to be portrayed as. Even Corax, who as we know REALLY didn't like Perturabo due the incident at Gate 42, would have had to hail his brother as a hero for saving his Legion.

Absolutely, If the even one of the loyal Primarcs had been able to befriend Perturabo (Vulkan? is a candidate I find most likely) then there own 'self-respect' would have been given enough of a lift to keep them loyal..

But I would say that the IVth legion was on the dark path even before they met up with Perturabo. They had been 'reduced' to the workhorse of the crusade, and they felt no 'Love' from the Emperor and got no thanks for the tasks they did. It wasn't heroic, but it let the others get on with the Heroic actions.

When they met with Perturabo, he wasn't able to change that path. He was 'type cast' and wasn't able to share in the glory.. and becuse of this he/they never compared themselves to the other leagions, sure the Iron hands, Night Lords and World Eaters may get overlooked as far as retribution was concerned IE: "but they are 'loved' by the emperor so sure they get it easy.. they always get it easy."

Long story short.. The Emperor is a terrible Dad.

 

[Uveron]

Iron Warriors along with a few other legions have been used as fodder for the main actors in the series.

I do have to agree, I have joked a bit that the Iron Warriors theme song is "Bad Guys" from Bugsy Malone..

But that is a problem with all the Traitor Legions, they were built to be the antagonists and details have slowly been added to them over time that has slowly humanized them.

But anyway:

The Iron Warriors are supposed to be calculative and cold, but then again depicted as incompetent with their lives as much as World Eaters.

I have always seen this as more being incompetent with 'Other Peoples' lives, But this is much more so with the Iron warriors in M41 than M31..

They are also craftsmen, perhaps even artists and perfectionists in their craft, yet, their tactics seem to reflect the opposite in the way they simply throw bodies and use brute strength.

I also don't see them as Perfectionists, I see that they are more pragmatical with a 'lets get it done attitude'. They may be Craftsmen but they will build things on an industrial scale, where small imperfections can be ignored, and this carries over to how they engage in warfare..

 

[Uveron]

Definitely. I thought Perturabo made things worse with his decimation of the Legion. That bit of fluff makes no sense to me? It's a pity Vulkan didn't manage to befriend him as they had quite a bit in common in terms of making things. The antipathy between Perturabo and Ferrus Manus makes no sense to me. They had even more in common as they both loved machines and technology. Ferrus' attitude towards Perturabo makes him come across as a right ****head. In fact Ferrus comes across as a ****head in all the books to my knowledge.

With Ferrus being one of the "The Dauntless Few", I can see that Perturabo sees him as everything wrong with the universe. Despite being the same Perturabo was an outsider.. now I think that was Perturabo's fault, and it was the leverlage that Horus and Fulgrim used to make him side with them.

The decimation makes sense, if you understand that Perturabo has no real leadership skills, and it was presumed that he would have them naturally. The fact that was his first act should have been an indicator to the rest of the crusade that someone needed to guide him..

So, yep... The The Emperor is a terrible Dad. But Perturabo was also a bit of a nutter..

Yeah we've not really seen enough of the technology aspect of the Iron Warriors yet. They're just portrayed as cold merciless killers and not particularly competent.

I thought the stuff in the Iron Warriors Omnibus did this quite well, they put alot a trust in how technology and science will help them. But they do not worship it and will discard it when they need to.. but anyway..

 

[Uveron]

there was things beyond his control in terms of difference in culture and the influence of chaos.

That's a good way to look at it... Thanks!

Perturabo's role in the Great Crusade was more important than many due his legion being used to garrison worlds throughout the imperium as well as destroying the strongest strongholds. When The Battle for Terra was over, they retreated more coherently than most of the legions, due to the support of the many worlds under Perturabo's rule.

Absolutely. Though a I have often thought of is a question: 'how much did any primarch actually influence the activity's of a Legion', because to be honest there is not a huge amount of change in operations from before Perturabo was 'found'.. or at least in my reading of the fluff.

 

[Uveron]

Good points I also wondered if the reason that the scouring only lasted 7 years was that some of the Iron Warrior garrisons remained loyal

So the question becomes... which 2nd founding chapter did they join! My bet... Marines Malevolent

 

[Uveron]

Ooh nice thinking although is there any fluff on the MM being particularly technology proficient?

The Lexicanum Entry can be condensed to:

- They like using Whirlwind artillery support
- They do not mind collatoal damage with said artillery
- They use Black and Yellow Hazard stripes to denote veterans.

Sounds like the IV Legion to me...

 

[Uveron]

I always regarded the MM as the negative spillout of either the Imperial Fists (they use their tactics) or the Ultramarines (they have their arrogance). But that's me. Any theories are valid, as long as they are committed in a sensible way.

The Imperial Firsts and the Iron Warriors are the Different side of the same Coin... (I mean You can take IF Geenseed and make an Iron Warrior with no real issue.. as they do quite often). It is the like looking at the difference between the UK and the USA. There are lots of differences, but for the most part they are quite superficial. (Speaking as a Brit whom now lives in the wild west)

 

[Uveron]

And I believe Honsou was a former IF just to get an example (if memory serves).

He was created with hybrid Geanseed by Fabius Bile... But it was IF stock.