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DA GOLDEN WAAAGH
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Discussion Starter #1
Ive been pondering thing today, not sure if this is the right spot mods move if needed.

But back to the topic, ive been thinking even as hard as i play my orks never seem to do amazingly maybe this is because they are outdated or because my lack of skill. As a result of this ive been trying other ork lists (some fan made ones and the "official" dreadmob one from forgeworld). But as ive played a couple of games with the Dreadmob List ive thought that it seems to stand ok against the newer books Tau in particular, bit ive found that overall it doesn't seem more "broken" than one of the GW codex with a few stronger unit in there but not filled with them.

So i pose you this question, when some people play forge world units they seem to be classified as broken overpowered things, some of which seem to be but that is for another discusion. How do the forge world lists stand up in your opinion to the GW codexes? Do the powerfull units get balanced out by weaker choices in these lists? What are the thoughts?
 

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-I haven't found a FW unit that I would consider OP, other than possibly the Spartan

People generally just scream OP before looking at the actual rules, most units are over rather than under pointed

Their lists are generally likewise underpowered but fun lists. Check out their heretics list compared to regular imperial guard or their tyrant legion list

Even the legion list in betrayal are crazy difficult to play with
 

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DA GOLDEN WAAAGH
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Discussion Starter #3
Two units that i can think of in the case of potenially overpowered are the vulture gunship with punisher cannon upgrade 20 S5 shots one a Av 12 flyer with vector dancer and Bs 4 against ground targets all for 155 points or something like that or thudd gun havnt experienced them though just looking at the ammount of shots.
 

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Hades Breaching Drills suck -_-

and before FW redid the rules - the Lifta Droppa was literally broken in every aspect ever.

other than that, 99% of FW stuffs are rather soft compared to certain units in the codexs.
 

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Yeah, that Vulture isn't OP'd. As an elysian player. It is only of effect against MEQ, Flyers, or low armoured vehicles, if you roll anything less than above average, or your opponent makes even a couple of saves, it is scuppered. Its strength is its utility, the lack of which is a Vendettas only weakness. Heavy Armour is a big weakness of the Elysian list, and if your opponent isn't balanced in his army selection, yohr fucked.

Thudd Gun's S5 /Legion Quad gun lists can be broken, but armour is their biggest weakness.



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Eh, none of the FW lists are broken, and as stated before are actually quite under powered.

As for the hades drill...the drill could have used a minor nerf, reduce it's damage and it's fine but they nerfed it into oblivion and is now worthless. The ONLY thing that made it broken was it could be used by regular guard veterans...inside the siege list it was fine as it was engineers that followed out of it....which is the ONLY way for a DKOK Siege army to get troops into the enemies lines before turn 5
 

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There's occasionally something in the forgeworld lists that didn't get thought through well enough or where they didn't consider what happens when you try and use those lists 'competitively' but overall the lists are pretty good. By and large forgeworld lists are under rather than over powered.

They're much better balance wise than they used to be at any rate. I personally would have no issue facing forgeworld units. In fact i welcome the added variety to our gaming tables.
 

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The recent Dark Harvest Necron list has largely the same units as the GW codex (minus a few), with the newer models, two characters and added wargear/rules for some existing units (such as Overlords) to fit in with the Maynarkh background.

So in this case, the army can play similarly to the GW codex, but emphasizes the use of certain units over others (such as Flayed Ones as they are troops in the army list.)
 

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I'm from the uk but spent time in oz. I would say people in oz auto say FW = over powered. That is not the attitude in the uk. I think I might of been 4 or 5 years ago. Personally I don't mind playing against FW stuff and would never not play someone who has FW. It has happened to me tho but only once in the UK.

I don't know it's all bait of a moo point tho now as FW it league anyhow. My 2cent.
 

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In the latest FAQ for "Betrayal" it says:

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)


In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.

Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.
 

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DA GOLDEN WAAAGH
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Didn't think if that i wonder what actually causes this stigma? Maybe us Down hear only buy the suposedly "broken" items and thats all we see down here, maybe causing the bias. Thats an interesting thought though.

As to the horus heresy stuff I think that its kinda in its own league even with this FAQ. But does offer a point with that bit with the house rules thing, showing that there may be a slight balance thing
 

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I would say people in oz auto say FW = over powered.
Nah not even. No one I know does, the only stipulation we have is that if you want to run it you MUST have the rules for it.
 

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I think it was a hang on from early days of FW where all they did were big scary things which supposedly were not tested. FW was incredibly niche, this was in the days before easy web transactions and the relative price excluded most FW kits compared to a then much cheaper GW kit, (Lol at that now!)

In the last 10 years or so FW has grown and become better at testing and writing rules which sit inside the 40k (and now fantasy) game. (Arguably GW have gotten worse, look at the DA book..)

Remember when FW started there were no apoc games or flyers in the rules. and all the upgrades (which tended to be for guard at the time) made them better

For tournie organisers it was also easier to simply say "no OP'ed" rather than consider the rules
 
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