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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Extermination says like below;

"The Imperial Fists' naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes, and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

However according to Tempest ...

''The main body of the Legion's void craft fleet was then made up of mid-scaled cruisers and smaller Battle Barges of various classes, along with substantial numbers of lighter pattern purpose-built Strike Cruisers, frigates and fast patrol cutters, all which could be produced by the shipyards of worlds across Ultramar. Although this fleet structure did allow the Legion a great deal of flexibility and range in how it deployed its many Space Marine chapters, its combined overall tonnage and firepower ranked the Ultramarines fleet in the mid-tier of the Legions, considerably behind the Imperial Fists, for example, and behind the Death Guard in terms of number of heavy capital units.''

Really, what it indicates? Why FW has engendered such inconsistency?
 

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I dont see any contradiction here, honestly. In both passages the Ultramarines fleet strength is still stated as being behind the Imperial Fists fleet strength.

What is the contradiction you're seeing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I dont see any contradiction here, honestly. In both passages the Ultramarines fleet strength is still stated as being behind the Imperial Fists fleet strength.

What is the contradiction you're seeing?
Exterminationsays Ultramarines have one of the largest fleet.

Whereas Tempest says Ultramarines have middle size fleet.
 

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"The Imperial Fists' naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes..... Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

From that quote you pulled from Extermination. I don't see anywhere that it says the Ultramarines have one of the largest fleets. Merely that they could not rival its strength. Considering the Ultramarines grasp of all things tactics, I can see them being placed among the best of the legions in terms of naval warfare with just a mid-sized fleet.

Unless you misquoted it, there is no contradiction here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"The Imperial Fists' naval might was the greatest of any of the Legiones Astartes..... Ultramarines could not rival such strength alone."

From that quote you pulled from Extermination. I don't see anywhere that it says the Ultramarines have one of the largest fleets. Merely that they could not rival its strength. Considering the Ultramarines grasp of all things tactics, I can see them being placed among the best of the legions in terms of naval warfare with just a mid-sized fleet.

Unless you misquoted it, there is no contradiction here.
Because the Betrayal has explicitly stated Sons of Horus have one of the strongest fleet among the Legions and the quote is rather obviously implying Ultramarines navel strength is on a par with them. Moreover nuance of citation is clearly expressing Ultramarines have one of the largest fleets.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Considering all the other rather large contradictions FW and GW make, this one is fairly minor and nitpicky. I sound have read that more about the general size of the Ultramarines and their Enpire rather than a huge fleet.
 

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The Ultramarines supposedly had the largest Legion but being as the Imperial Fists were largely responsible for Terra's defences, this would require the mightiest ships the Space marines could muster and later on the Imperial Fists became entirely space bound so some their larger flag ships are their equivalent to a chapter's home planet. Something else to note would be the Iron Warrior's fleet - which was supposed to be the Imperial Fist's greatest rival - Perturabo's flagship being one of the largest of all the legions. I was also under the impression that the Dark Angels fleet was vast too
 

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I see no contradiction.

It says the Ultramarine fleet alone could not compare to the Imperial Fist's fleet. But we know from various sources that the power of a Space Marine really lies in its Astartes and boarding action.

So while the Luna Wolves and Ultramarine fleets may be more powerful in the sense of a wholistic fleet action (IE both ship-firepower and boarding actions), in a strictly ship to ship comparison, the Imperial Fists come out ahead.

Plus the second quote only mentions the Ultramarine's ranking in terms of tonnage and firepower. If, say, strategic and tactical flexibility was how the fleets were ranked, then I bet the Ultramarines would be considerably higher on the list.

Can't judge a fish on its ability to fly, after all. At least not all fish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Considering all the other rather large contradictions FW and GW make, this one is fairly minor and nitpicky. I sound have read that more about the general size of the Ultramarines and their Enpire rather than a huge fleet.
What FW internal contradiction for example? In fact, I have seen very, very few, including posted one.
 

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if I get it right here. the quotes say that the Imperial fists have THE greatest naval might of the legiones astartes. and the sons of horus and the Ultramarines have ONE of the strongest fleets.

doesn't that just mean that in comparison to most other legions the Ultramarines and Sons of Horus have strong fleets? that would not exclude other fleets being greater. in this case the Imperial Fists.
 
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