[MidnightSun]

Can a Flyer with Hover mode deep strike in Hover mode?

 

[Zion]

Can a Flyer with Hover mode deep strike in Hover mode?

I would assume so. I mean I can't think of anything that'd prevent it (not that there are many deep striking, hovering flyers left)

 

[neferhet]

i can understand your problem: if it's not a FMC, does it crash and burn??
i'd say no...If a flyer deep strikes, it is considered to be moving cruising speed.

Cruising speed for a flyer is over 18 and up to 36 inches.

The flyer does not crash, as the Zooming flyer counts as having moved at least 18 inches, as it counts as moving cruising speed

And i know that RAW the "counts as cruising speed" shit is only specified for shooting phase, but c'mon...

Also, there are exceptionally few flyers that still has DS...it would be stupid not to let them use this rule, due to a "grey area" in the ruleset. If they count as cruisin' in the shooting phase, it's good to me to make them count as cruisin' even in the movement phase.

 

[MidnightSun]

Ah; I didn't realise there were *any* Flyers left with Deep Strike explicitly in their rules. Skimmers, however, all have Deep Strike; would a Flyer have this if it entered in Hover mode - i.e. as a skimmer?

 

[neferhet]

i guess that any flyer still left with DS should enter game hovering.
However we could assume that, like FMC's, you can choose not and zoom instead.
Still, it's a very limited case group, mostly comprised of FW models...like the dreadclaw i think.

 

[ntaw]

First line of the Fliers entry is they must begin the game in Reserve, the way I see it is if the unit has the Flier type it's in Reserve at the beginning of the game regardless of other potential unit types. I used to do this all the time with my Stormravens to get differently facing firing arcs than if I were to have come on straight...but alas, no longer. When Skies of Death (or whatever it was called) came out Deep Strike was FAQ'd out of every codex for units with the Flier type. Since everything's been updated to at least 6th now, I doubt we're going to find many cases in need of a ruling on this.

EDIT: I'm noticing in my BA Codex that it now says Stormravens are Flier, Hover, Transport, could it be that other Fliers that are also Skimmers are getting that FAQ'd in to clear this up?

 

[Vaz]

Where does it say that all Skimmers have Deep Strike?

My 7th Edition rulebook has this to state for Skimmers special rule;

Skimmers that are not also Heavy vehicles have the Jink special rule.

DEEP STRIKE
Some units make their way to battle via tunnelling, teleportation, flying, or some other
extraordinary means which allows them to appear in the thick of the fighting.
In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep
Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve.

And that's what Deep Strike states.

That aside, there's nothing preventing a Flyer by Deep Striking in Zooming mode; however, the Deep Strike rules force the destruction of units forced to move after Deep Strike, and zoom has a minimum move speed.

So, they're effectively forced to Hover.

If you're talking about 30K Age of Darkness battles, there are specific rules for Deep Striking flyers; Page 81 of the LACAL Red Book (the generic legion rules).

 

[ntaw]

That aside, there's nothing preventing a Flyer by Deep Striking in Zooming mode

Since Hover makes you act like a Fast Skimmer and does not confer Deep Strike, what Fliers are actually left having the DS rule? I know all of the ones I use (Stormravens, Night/Doom Scythes, and Vendettas) do not have the Deep Strike rule....so which ones still do that don't also have a FAQ likely removing it?

When I could DS my Stormravens I definitely always played them as entering in Hover mode.

 

[venomlust]

Fire Raptor, Storm Eagle, Hell Blade, Hell Talon, Dreadclaw, and Arvus Lighter are all flyers with Deep Strike.

 

[MidnightSun]

Huh. I guess being a Skimmer doesn't give you Deep Strike, no idea where I got that from. I think I'm thinking of Jump Infantry...

Well, thanks for the responses

 

[loki619]

also your cannot deep strike say ur stormeagle in hover mode u have to deepstrike then next turn change modes the only way u can come on in hover mode is from a board edge this came up recently for me and we found it somewhere just cant remember off the top of my head

 

[Vaz]

you*

Grammar is the result of 3.8 billion years of evolution. Please, for fuck's sake (literally, as that results in evolution), at least make a passing attempt at it.

In regards to the rules for assaulting; you cannot assault after coming on from reserve (unless it explicitly states as such, like in the Blood Angel's formation), ever. Assault Transports, like the Stormraven, or any other transport with the assault special rule and coming from reserves (whether as normal reserves, outflank, or deep strike, or any other kind of reserves pool) do not have any special allowance to assault.

Think of it this way;

To assault, you must have all switches set to green rather than red.

Switch 1; Have you arrived from reserve this turn? Yes = Red, No = Green
Switch 2; Have you disembarked from a vehicle without the assault rule or open topped this turn? Yes = Red, No = Green
Switch 3; Have you fired a Heavy weapon the previous shooting phase? Yes = Red, No = Green

so on and so forth. If you have one red, you cannot assault.

 

[ntaw]

^ heavy weapon, rapid fire weapon, and salvo weapon...?

Unless of course you have Relentless.

 

[Vaz]

If I was to list every possible Red Flag I'd be hear all day. And I can't really be that bothered when the standard of the people I am attempting to help speak lyk dis u get me?

 

[ntaw]

Here*.

They were pretty common examples, or at least Rapid Fire is.

 

[MidnightSun]

Stop being a pedant, he did say 'and so forth'.

BA formations can assault off the deep strike and you can't assault if you turbo-boosted etc. etc. et al.

Anyway, that's not what the thread is about.

 

[ntaw]

Anyway, that's not what the thread is about.

Nope, it's about Fliers and Deep Strike. Venomlust came on with a list of FW fliers that have DS (which I don't have the books to verify the rules for) and Vaz mentioned some 30k stuff that has specific rules for how DS and Fliers work, so are there any 40k fliers that still have the Deep Strike rule or is this resolved?

 

[mayegelt]

I think i also remember seeing that flyers deepstriking have to start in flying mode even if they have the hover rule, though i am not 100% sure. I know a daemon prince or greater daemon with wings that deepstrikes (even through possession) seems to have to start as souring, rather than gliding. The exception to this is where the rules for the deepstriker say that they have to start in hover mode, such as the dreadclaw and khardris assault drop pods.

 

[Zion]

I think i also remember seeing that flyers deepstriking have to start in flying mode even if they have the hover rule, though i am not 100% sure. I know a daemon prince or greater daemon with wings that deepstrikes (even through possession) seems to have to start as souring, rather than gliding. The exception to this is where the rules for the deepstriker say that they have to start in hover mode, such as the dreadclaw and khardris assault drop pods.

That seems odd to me since if you're gliding you count as a Jump Monstrous Creature, and Jump units can Deep Strike standard.

 

[mayegelt]

Seems odd to all the khorne players as well... but it says it in the flyer rules for deepstrikes i think.
There is hope now though... new csm/daemons of khorne codex means they might have a play with the rules.