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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is a list I put together and am needing to know if its competitive enough while still following the fluff of the Flesh Tearer, Blood Angel Successor Chapter. Thanks ahead of time :)

HQ
Gabriel Seth

Elites
3 Sanguinary Priests
one w/ power weapon
two w/ jump packs, power weapons, meltabombs

Librarian Furioso Dreadnaught w/ the Shield of Sanguinious, and the Wings of Sanguinious

Troops
8 Assault Marines w/ meltagun, sergeant w/ power weapon, rhino w/ dozer blade

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, rhino w/ dozer blade

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, rhino w/ dozer blade

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

7 Death Company w/ jump packs, hand flamer, power weapon, thunder hammer, and Lemartes "Guardian of The Lost"

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade, searchlight, storm bolter (not quite sure whether to have the twin-linked assault cannon, or flamestorm cannon on the main turret.)

2 Attack Bikes w/ multi-melta's

Total 2500 points and with a model count of 67 counting everything. Gabriel will be riding along with the assault squad of 8 including the Sanguinary Priest on foot. While the two Sanguinary Priests with jump packs will be attached to the two assault squads that still have they're jump packs. The rhinos will move up with the Dreadnaught in front or behind and to use his shield psychic power to give the rhino's cover saves when they've used they're smoke launchers. The two assault squads will follow behind the dreadnaught and rhinos to use them to block line of sight to themselves and or to give themselves cover if they are shot at. The Death Company will either do the same as the assault squads with jump packs or they will deepstrike in to try to negate they're rage rule as best they can. While if they are deployed with the rest of the army then I will deploy the rhinos in such a way as to keep them from seeing the enemy and then they're rage rule is ignored or to keep the rhino and or dreadnaught close enough that if the opponent decides to shoot at the Death Company that they will at least get a cover save. The Baal Predator can either deploy with the rest of the armor and use its front armor of 13 to help better protect the rhinos or it can outflank to surprise and or cause havoc where the opponent thought was perhaps safe before hand. I am not sure if the attack bikes will be a squad or be on they're own to give them more selection of targets and have the opponent need to split his fire. The attack bikes will be close to the Sanguinary Priests so as to benefit from they're feel no pain and hide behind the rhino's, dreadnaught as well while using they're speed or possibly turbo boosting ability to be able to have a shot at an opponent's exposed side armor.

Just wanting some advice to see if the army is both competitive, follows, fluff of chapter, while still be fun, flexible to play and adapt at scheming opponent's ;)
 

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Actually, this list looks pretty sound to me, and looks pretty fluffy aswell. All i can really say at this point is maybe drop the dozer blades and try and find some points for EA on your tanks like taking the MBs off the priests, you dont want them meeting face to face with a dread and/or getting rid of the hand flamer on the DC, you want to keep their point costs down as much as possible. things like that. you want to keep those tanks moving, espeically if they dual role as a shield for half your force. That and as you said, i would run the bikes seperately. just ultimately better. splits fire, less wound saturation that can be avoided, so on and so forth. Otherwise i'd like to see how the list fairs.

Hope that helps and happy hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
After dropping the meltabombs on the two Priests, dozer blades on the rhino's, hand flamer on the Death Company, and storm bolter on the Baal Predator. It gives me 45 points which would give the three rhino's extra armor as you've said yet if I do this I am wanting to have extra armor on the Baal Predator as well. I wish I could have extra armor on the Librarian Dreadnaught as well but yeah that isn't happening. The only other place I can see taking another 15 points from is the death Company and switch the thunder hammer with just another power weapon. But this also then gears the Death company for just infantry as a whole. Is that still worth it then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I've also played now with the idea of a stormraven. So here is the new list which has changed slightly but still fits with fluff and such, so without further ado...

HQ
Gabriel Seth

Elites
3 Sanguinary Priests
one w/ power weapon
two w/ jump packs, power weapons

Furioso Dreadnaught w/ blood talons

Troops
8 Assault Marines w/ meltagun, sergeant w/ power weapon, in a rhino

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, in a rhino

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, in a rhino

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

10 Assault Marines w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

10 Death Company w/ 1 power weapon, 1 thunder hammer, and Lemartes

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade, searchlight

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ twin-linked multi-melta, twin-linked assault cannon, hurricane bolter sponsons, extra armor

Total: 2500 points

Needing a bit more insight, as for the stormraven conversion. I have come up with a fantastic idea and I can keep my costs down in order to do the necessary work with the necessary bits that I will be needing.
 

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it's a decent list.

personally, i think you could go with a cheaper unit than the DC (like Sternguard; i mean figure disembarking, shooting that sweet special ammo and then assaulting) but there's nothing wrong if you want to take them.

i'd drop the single Baal Pred for Speeders. take the Storm pattern for anti-tank and anit-horded and you may have points left over to boot.

good hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Speeders are a bit too fragile for me and with how I tend to roll, lets just say that I hit and then not much else happens after that. So with this list I played a friend and got... tabled... again... The Death Company ultimately did nothing... So in regards to that I have devised another list which plays a bit differently with an honour guard squad, chaplain, and librarian dreadnaught. So here is the list...

HQ
Gabriel Seth


*Honour Guard one w/ chapter banner, power weapon, two w/ power weapons, and meltabombs, one w/ thunder hammer storm shield, plus the Sanguinary Noviate

Elites
Librarian Dreadnaught

2 Sanguinary Priests w/ jump packs and power weapons

Chaplain

Troops
3X10 Assault Marines w/ two meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, and rhino

2X10 Assault marines w/ two meltaguns, sergeant w/ power weapon, infernus pistol, meltabombs

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ twin-linked assault cannons, dozer blade, heavy bolter sponsons

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ twin-linked assault cannons, twin-linked multi-melta, hurricane bolter sponsons, extra armor

Total: 2500 Points

Alrighty then, Honour Guard, Gabriel, Librarian Dreadnaught, and the Chaplain will be riding in the stormraven, the honour guard armed with power weapons, chapter banner, and one thunder hammer to make up for Seth not having a power weapon and only rending. The Chaplain is there to throw in one more power weapon and the fact that he grants all of them a reroll to hit. Then with the Sanguinary Noviate they will all be strength 5 besides gabriel who will be 9. Granted they must still choose they're targets wisely but otherwise they should be dangerous indeed. I choose the Librarian Dreadnaught because I hated the fact that without a psychic hood there was no way of dealing with Mephiston besides going at him head on. I still am debating on whether or not its worth it to start the baal predator on the table. Again with the way that I've been rolling he doesn't show up till third or fourth turn which is just too late to make the most of his short range but incredible rate of firepower.

Beyond that the tactics remain the same... so yea or nay? The other alternative to this is to run Sanguinary Guard and another Sanguinary Priest. So which seems better both have advantages being the Sanguinary Guard already having power weapons, 2+ armor, they are fearless, and they have a mastercrafted power weapon, throw in one carrying the chapter banner and infernus pistol, and one with a infernus pistol and powerfist. So yeah still wanting others opinion on this matter because so far I have been tabled three times by my opponent's same army list which is as follows

HQ
Mephiston

Elites
2 Sanguinary Priests one with a jump pack, and power weapon, the other in terminator armor

Furioso Dreadnaught with blood talons

5 Assault Terminators 3 w/ thunder hammer and storm shields, and the other two with lightning claws with a land raider crusader with multi-melta, extra armor

Troops
2x10 tactical squads w/ meltagun, missile launcher, with rhinos

2x10 assault squads w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist

Fast Attack
2 Baal Predators one with flamestorm/dozer blade/heavy bolters while the other has the assault cannons, dozer blade, and heavy bolters

Thanks again
 

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it's a decent list.

personally, i think you could go with a cheaper unit than the DC (like Sternguard; i mean figure disembarking, shooting that sweet special ammo and then assaulting) but there's nothing wrong if you want to take them.

i'd drop the single Baal Pred for Speeders. take the Storm pattern for anti-tank and anit-horded and you may have points left over to boot.

good hunting.
Execpt the Sterngurad cant disembark, shoot special ammo AND assault in the same turn as bolters are not assault weapons.
 

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Speeders are a bit too fragile for me and with how I tend to roll, lets just say that I hit and then not much else happens after that. So with this list I played a friend and got... tabled... again... The Death Company ultimately did nothing... So in regards to that I have devised another list which plays a bit differently with an honour guard squad, chaplain, and librarian dreadnaught. So here is the list...

HQ
Gabriel Seth


*Honour Guard one w/ chapter banner, power weapon, two w/ power weapons, and meltabombs, one w/ thunder hammer storm shield, plus the Sanguinary Noviate

Elites
Librarian Dreadnaught

2 Sanguinary Priests w/ jump packs and power weapons

Chaplain

Troops
3X10 Assault Marines w/ two meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, and rhino

2X10 Assault marines w/ two meltaguns, sergeant w/ power weapon, infernus pistol, meltabombs

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ twin-linked assault cannons, dozer blade, heavy bolter sponsons

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ twin-linked assault cannons, twin-linked multi-melta, hurricane bolter sponsons, extra armor

Total: 2500 Points

Alrighty then, Honour Guard, Gabriel, Librarian Dreadnaught, and the Chaplain will be riding in the stormraven, the honour guard armed with power weapons, chapter banner, and one thunder hammer to make up for Seth not having a power weapon and only rending. The Chaplain is there to throw in one more power weapon and the fact that he grants all of them a reroll to hit. Then with the Sanguinary Noviate they will all be strength 5 besides gabriel who will be 9. Granted they must still choose they're targets wisely but otherwise they should be dangerous indeed. I choose the Librarian Dreadnaught because I hated the fact that without a psychic hood there was no way of dealing with Mephiston besides going at him head on. I still am debating on whether or not its worth it to start the baal predator on the table. Again with the way that I've been rolling he doesn't show up till third or fourth turn which is just too late to make the most of his short range but incredible rate of firepower.

Beyond that the tactics remain the same... so yea or nay? The other alternative to this is to run Sanguinary Guard and another Sanguinary Priest. So which seems better both have advantages being the Sanguinary Guard already having power weapons, 2+ armor, they are fearless, and they have a mastercrafted power weapon, throw in one carrying the chapter banner and infernus pistol, and one with a infernus pistol and powerfist. So yeah still wanting others opinion on this matter because so far I have been tabled three times by my opponent's same army list which is as follows

HQ
Mephiston

Elites
2 Sanguinary Priests one with a jump pack, and power weapon, the other in terminator armor

Furioso Dreadnaught with blood talons

5 Assault Terminators 3 w/ thunder hammer and storm shields, and the other two with lightning claws with a land raider crusader with multi-melta, extra armor

Troops
2x10 tactical squads w/ meltagun, missile launcher, with rhinos

2x10 assault squads w/ 2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist

Fast Attack
2 Baal Predators one with flamestorm/dozer blade/heavy bolters while the other has the assault cannons, dozer blade, and heavy bolters

Thanks again
No, Seth still hits at STR 8 as per his weapon's rules. The Furious Charge WILL however bump his Initiative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
So what changes furious charge that Gabriel Seth's strength is not increased when his iniative is?

Here is another list after another game against Grey Knights where again the Death Company performed poorly, so yeah changing it again. Rogue Trader is in less than a week now so hopefully I will find a winning combination. Here it is...

HQ
Gabriel Seth

Elites
3 Sanguinary Priests, 1 w/ power weapon, 2 w/ jump packs and power weapons

Librarian Dreadnaught w/ Shield of Sanguinious,

Sanguinary Guard, 1 w/ chapter banner and infernus pistol

Troops
3x10 Assault Marines, 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, powerfist, rhino

2x10 Assault Marines, 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ flamestorm cannon, heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ assault cannon, multi-melta (both twin-linked), hurricane bolter sponsons, extra armor

Points Total: 2500
Model Total: 65
 

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So what changes furious charge that Gabriel Seth's strength is not increased when his iniative is?

Here is another list after another game against Grey Knight where again the Death Company performed poorly, so yeah changing it again. Rogue Trader is in less than a week now so hopefully I will find a winning combination. Here it is...

HQ
Gabriel Seth

Elites
3 Sanguinary Priests, 1 w/ power weapon, 2 w/ jump packs and power weapons

Librarian Dreadnaught w/ Shield of Sanguinious,

Sanguinary Guard, 1 w/ chapter banner and infernus pistol

Troops
3x10 Assault Marines, 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, powerfist, rhino

2x10 Assault Marines, 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ infernus pistol, power weapon, meltabombs

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ flamestorm cannon, heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ assault cannon, multi-melta (both twin-linked), hurricane bolter sponsons, extra armor

Points Total: 2500
Model Total: 65
Right, "hits from Blood Reaver are resolved at Strength 8..." so Furious Charge will not change that but he can still get the +1 Init.
What did you put your DC up against that they did so poorly? Remember, the DC can be hard hitting but also will draw the attention of your opponent which means they might ignore what your other units are doing in an effort to kill the DC off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
True enough but even in the rulebook explaining powerfists that double your strength, furious charge still applies making the model strength 9 and usually iniative of 5. So why then would it not apply to Gabriel? His attacks are resolved at strength 8 yet given furious charge his strength 8 chainsword would then be strength 9. I'm just curious because otherwise it would make no sense to allow Gabriel to use furious charge but only the advantage of a better iniative. He either uses the rule and benefits from it or he doesn't. The Death Company charged a land Raider Crusader with Gabriel Seth and successfully wrecked it. In The following turn they were assaulted by Grey Knight Terminators with a Grand Master. The Grand Master killed 3 or 4 of them by himself before any attacks back, while Gabriel managed to only wound two Terminators and both of the wounds my opponent saved. Granted Death Company need to get the charge otherwise they're expensive Assault Marines w/ a better WS, one more attack, and feel no pain. So perhaps need to rethink that approach with them being in the Stormraven. Otherwise for this week's game I will be putting Sanguinary Guard w/ chapter banner, Sanguinary Priest, and Gabriel in the Stormraven and seeing how that works out for me.
 

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Blame the wording on Seth's weapon (and Astorath for that matter). Powerfists double a model's STR and then other bonuses are added. Seth's weapon says "strikes at strength 8..." and Astrorath strikes at STR 6.
This might have been an oversight on the part of the design team or it might have been intentional. There is nothing that prevents them however, from bumping their initiative with FC.
Now that I think about it, Grey Knights are just a bad thing to have almost any unit against. They all have power weapons IIRC and if their HQ was mixed in...well, yeah....ugly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Being how that the design team at GW doesn't play test they're rules and simply what looks good on paper is what they go with, hence why they have to FAQ everything. I've played with Gabriel so far and my opponent did not say or give me anything to think that Gabriel would not benefit from furious charge. So until I have a person telling me other wise I will continue to play him along those lines. It goes the same way that the model either benefit from the rule or does not. It just doesn't make sense to split the rule and say he doesn't get the strength but he gets the iniative. Anyways so yeah, going to be trying out the Sanguinary Guard and thinking that I will just stick with them granted that with the priest, master crafted power weapons, 4 attacks on the charge from each plus 5 from the priest, and 6 from Gabriel. I think I will stick with that for now. If I can find some cool looking dice that then roll better than what I have been then I will be buying some dice before Saturday.
 

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One issue I see here is that Sang Guard are jump troops and Seth is not. You might be better off running him with an Honor Guard, throwing a few power weapons in there and a chapter banner. The banner will give them all +1 attack. Just something to think about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sanguinary Guard 1 w/ infernus pistol, chapter banner
Sanguinary Priest w/ power weapon

Total: 305 points, 31 Attacks; 25 being power weapon attacks at strength 5, iniative 5 on the charge 20 of those being mastercrafted, while the last 6 attacks at strength 9, iniative 6 on the charge. The majority armor save is 2+ and the Sanguinary Guard and Gabriel are fearless. There is one squad, and two independant characters. There are 10 wounds all together.

Honour Guard
4 w/ power weapons
1 w/ chapter banner

Chaplain

Total: 305 Points, 36 attacks on the charge, 25 attacks are power weapons at strength 5, iniative 5 with rerolls 'to hit', 5 attacks at strength 5, iniative 5 on the charge with rerolls 'to hit', and 6 attacks at strength 9, iniative 6 on the charge with rerolls 'to hit'. The majority armor save is 3+. Gabriel Seth is fearless but because of the Chaplain's 'Honour of The Chapter' special rule he and his squad that he accompanies are all fearless. There is one squad and two independant characters. There are twelve wounds total in all.

There are advantages to both and perhaps this Thursday I will have enough time to try out both differences and see what works best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So yesterday I played another game this time using the Honour Guard and Chaplain... Yet I still got tabled by turn 4... Don't what else to say besides... Without using a unit that all others use, makes for an uphill battle...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay... I got a hold of a few units that make me sad because I am changing my battle plans and competitive edge just to be able to have a close game, and to not be tabled... So here is the newest list with the units that I have acquired.

HQ
Gabriel Seth

Elites
Furioso Dreadnaught w/ heavy flamer and extra armor

2 Sanguinary Priests w/ power weapons

5 Assault Terminators w/ lightning claws

Troops
3x10 Assault Marines 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ powerfist, rhino

10 Assault Marines 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ power weapon, infernus pistol, in a Land Raider Redeemer w/ a multi-melta and extra armor

10 Assault Marines 2 meltaguns, sergeant w/ power weapon, infernus pistol, meltabombs

Fast Attack
Baal Predator w/ assault cannons, heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade

Heavy Support
Stormraven w/ assault cannon, multi-melta, hurricane bolter sponsons, and extra armor

Total:2500 Points
Model Total: 65

The Terminators will be in the Stormraven with Gabriel and one of the priests while the other priest will be in the Land Raider.
 

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explain the inclusion of the LR that is NOT carrying termies, i mean, a rhino works aswell. Use the LR for termies and drop the stormraven, pick up 2-3 landspeeders with 2 MMs each. but you dont like speeders..
 
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