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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey All!

I recently started playing 40k and I chose to go with the blood angels because they look super awesome lol. The sanguinary guard pretty much made the decision for me (love the way they look) :grin:

I was wondering if you guys could help me out with my first list. I'm mainly going to be playing for fun against my cousin who is playing a green tide ork army. All I know is that it has a ton of boyz!! I made these choices based on how much fun I thought it would be to play with these models.

HQ
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Mephiston - 250 pts

Elites
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5x Sanguinary Guard w/ chapter banner (230 pts)
1x Sanguinary Priest w/ jump pack and power sword (90 pts)
1x Furioso Dreadnaught w/ Blood Talons (125 pts)

Troops
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10x Tactical Squad, 1x Missile Launcher, 1x Flamer (170 pts)
1x Razorback w/ TLPG & LC (90 pts)
10x Assault Squad, 1x Melta (200 pts)

Fast Attack
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1x Baal Predator (115 pts)

Heavy Suport
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1x Storm Raven w/ TLMM, TLLC, and Hurricane Bolters (230 pts)

Grand Total: 1500 pts

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
-Heb
 

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My major concern is your lack of scoring units. DC don't count for objectives, therefore all the enemy has to do is kill the one tactical squad you have and you're unable to do better than draw, unless it's a massacre scenario.

Your army seems to lack a focus. You have your Death Company, which I assume will be in your face to the enemy, as well as the Sang Guard, and I'm guessing the Priest goes with them? DC in the Stormraven, Tactical in the Rhino? I'd give the Tacticals a Missile Launcher and a Melta Gun, and possibly Combat Squad them, putting 5 in a Razorback instead, and letting the Missile Launcher half stay back and take potshots. Give the Razorback the Las/Plasma option. Give your Stormraven the Lascannons and Multi Melta as well. Extra Armor's not needed, but Hurricane Sponsons are a great help.
 

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+1 to everything Xabre said, although I would say Extra Armour is generally never needed and that HB's are crucial on a SR if you're taking the Melta/LC combo.

Mephiston - 250 pts
Mephy is a cool idea, just keep him hidden until the time is right. AP2 weapons will eat him- see plasma guns. Remember he cannot join a squad, and if he's in the SR he counts as the whole unit in the hold.

Elites
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5x Sanguinary Guard w/ chapter banner (230 pts)
1x Sanguinary Priest w/ jump pack and power sword (90 pts)
I'd drop the Chapter Banner, but I'm curious as to what arrangement of axes and swords you are giving the squad. Personally I'd say 3 or 4 swords to 1 or 2 axes. The Priest is good for keeping them alive with FnP, but that's a really expensive unit that is gunna get shot up bad.

Troops
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10x Tactical Squad, 1x Lascannon, 1x Plasma Gun (190 pts)
1x Rhino (50 pts)
Drop the Lascannon for a Missile Launcher as Xabre suggested, but the PG is totally up to you. I've started to kind of like them in my tactical squads, only because I have enough melta from other sources. Combat squads and a Razorback is nothing but a blast with these guys. It's also only a 5 point difference that you more than made up for with your dropping of the Lascannon. I typically just use the TLHB on them, but the TLPG/LC is pretty sweet if you want to spend the points. If.

Lemartes (150 pts)
8x Death Company, 1 Power Weapon, 1 Power Fist (200 pts)
Decent outfit for the DC, but I stay away from using Lemartez personally. You could take a JP Chaplain from the Elites section and it would cost 125, and be basically the same aside from wolfie berzerker styles after one wound. Typically I take a Reclusiarch for this as it takes care of my HQ and DC boost with a smooth 130. As a side note, the best delivery system for these guys is either a Land Raider or a Drop Pod as far as my experience goes. Since you've only got the one flier any of your opponents air defense will be aimed at it and only it. DC will die terribly out of a crashing flier. It's happened so many times to me that I only put them in a SR when I field two of them in some 2K/2.5K lists.

1x Death Company Dreadnought w/ blood talons (125 pts)
Such a bad ass. Unless you have it modeled already, I would suggest going Furioso when you have the Elite slot. The AV13 is just so precious in CC where this guy should be.

Heavy Suport
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1x Storm Raven w/ extra amor (215 pts)
Like I said above, ditch extra armour and add in hurricane bolters. Even if you decide to go MM and AC, still take hurricane bolters.


Since I wasn't sure what models you have I didn't suggest just changing everything. Moving forward, if you get an Aegis Defense Line w/Quad Gun and stick the other half of your tactical squad (or even just sit the RB next to it with the fancy las/plas turret) it will greatly increase your backfield presence.

Hope some of this helps!
 

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Lots of agreeing here. A couple things though

I would argue that the chapter banner is worth it, as +6 PW attacks (affects the priest too) is pretty baller, actually right on par with 30 points (15 per PW). I would suggest 3 swords 2 axes, but depending on your opponent you may want to shift the balance slightly.

Assuming that you do have models/haven't gotten them yet, I would replace the DC with some scoring RAS: otherwise the priest doesn't really give you his moneysworth, and they score. You really do need some more scoring units. If you don't have more models, I would suggest proxying DCs as some RAS in a razorback or something. Scoring is needed, and you already have the sanguinary guard for hard hitting.

If you drop the DC and lemartes and also the rhino (keep the tacticals for backward scoring??) you could even get in two assault squads (I would suggest one with meltas one with flamers, no cc weapons). If you don't have the models though, and just want to work with what you have, please ignore this advice.

Hope this helps, best of luck to you
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hey Guys!

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I didn't get back sooner, was away for a couple of days.

From what I gather the main problem is that I don't have enough scoring units so I think I have to address this issue first.

I already have all these models but it's ok I don't mind getting more.
I could always use these ones in other lists.

So to get more scoring units its seems as if I should remove the DC from the list. Including Lemartes and the Dreadnaught.
That gives me back 475 pts.

I'll change up the Tac squad like you guys suggested to have the missile launcher. I'll remove the rhino and add the razorback with the TLPG/LC.
I didn't know about the Combat Squad rule. Thanks for telling me about it.
From what I gather you can split the squad into two units of 5 and still get the benefits from having a squad of 10. Is this right?

The sanguinary guard have been modeled with 3 swords and 2 axes.
Didn't even know there was a difference between the two. I just thought they were both power weapons lol.

I'll replace the DC dreadnaught with the Furioso w/ Blood Talons.

I'll also add the hurricane sponsors to the stormraven and remove the extra armor. This thing looks pretty bad ass now lol.

After all these changes I still have 305 pts to play with (I'll edit the list up top to reflect them). What do you guys think I should add? Assault Squads? Baal Predator? :grin:
One thing I should note is that since I had DC before I modeled all those guys with pistols and chainswords to get the +1 attack in CC. So all the Tac Squad troops just have their regular bolters.

Thanks for all the help guys! Really appreciate it.
 

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I'll change up the Tac squad like you guys suggested to have the missile launcher. I'll remove the rhino and add the razorback with the TLPG/LC.
I didn't know about the Combat Squad rule. Thanks for telling me about it.
From what I gather you can split the squad into two units of 5 and still get the benefits from having a squad of 10. Is this right?
Basically, yeah. Space marines in exactly 10 models can choose to deploy as 2 squads of 5 instead. They become, for all intents and purposes, 2 5-man squads. They can never go back together again, and must be separated at deployment. Useful for trying to antagonize different targets, but also less wounds for an enemy to eat for VP.

The sanguinary guard have been modeled with 3 swords and 2 axes.
Didn't even know there was a difference between the two. I just thought they were both power weapons lol.
That was a change that came out with 6E. Swords are now Ap3, Axes are Ap2, Str + 1 Unwieldy.

One thing I should note is that since I had DC before I modeled all those guys with pistols and chainswords to get the +1 attack in CC. So all the Tac Squad troops just have their regular bolters.
Nothing wrong with your Tacticals with Bolters. that's their primary armament anyway. You need at least one more scoring squad, preferably two in 1500 points. Assault Squads tend to be the name of the game. Your Sanguinaries are your heavy hitters, so Death Company is overkill (albeit strong, don't get me wrong there), so Assault Squads should do the job. I would suggest at least one as Jump Packs, so they can move around equally as fast and hard hitting as your Sang Guard (well, decently hard hitting. Lack of Power Weapons and Artificer armor, but more bodies). A second squad wouldn't be bad, possibly one that hangs near Mephisto, since he can't have a bodyguard.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey Xabre. Thanks for the reply.

I'm debating between adding one of these two options. Which do you think is better? I'm open to others as well. These just came to mind when playing around with the assault squads.

Option 1:
10x Assault Marines, 1x Meltagun (200 pts)
5x Assault Marines, 1x Flamer (105 pts)

Option 2:
10x Assault Marines (190 pts)
1x Baal Predator (115 pts)

You also mentioned removing the jump packs from one of the assault squads. The only thing I see in the codex about that is getting a 35 point reduction on a dedicated transport. Can these points be applied elsewhere?
 

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If you go with 10 man Assault marine squads, tool them with two special weapons, so 2x Meltas for armour or 2x Flamers for infantry. Personally I play 2x Meltas and use my Baal predator (which is awesome) for the specifically infantry shots. My RAS mop up what's left after the Baal's done with them. It's worth it to magnetize or sticky tac your turrets on so that you have the option of adding heavy bolters to the Baal. 6 more shots often equals dead or broken squads.

You also mentioned removing the jump packs from one of the assault squads. The only thing I see in the codex about that is getting a 35 point reduction on a dedicated transport. Can these points be applied elsewhere?
They can't use that point deduction any differently, though keeping the jump packs often works out better. It does specify taking a transport at a 35 point deduction. I play a 10 man squad with and a 10 man squad without, the latter is deployed in a drop pod which was 'free' because they didn't have jump packs. The unit is solely designed to destroy armour turn 1, and because it is horribly immobile for what it is afterward it usually dies.

Putting them in Razorbacks works as well, but not as well as buying RB's for 10 man tactical squads and dividing them up into combat squads with the heavy weapon staying back and the sergeant with the assault weapon marine embarked in the RB. *exhales* That was a good sentence. I've really tried making Assault squads work out of RB's and the best way I've found in that respect is going 2x hand flamers in the sergeant with one flamer in the squad so they can torch any infantry (this is really only effective against infantry) before they get shot up. Not being able to charge out of RB's kinda sucks.

Make room for a Sanguinary Priest. He can make a 10 man RAS way harder to deal with, and since he has a higher WS (of 5) he is the one you should give a PW to, not the sergeant of the squad. Use the sergeant as a dummy for challenges. He is also a great buff as the 6th member of a RB squad. Remember that his FnP benefits any BA unit within 6" of him; with some crafty placement one should cover two RASs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey ntaw, your idea about running meltas on the assault squad and having a Baal Predator clean up the infantry sounds pretty fun.
To do that I would have to remove the plasma gun from the tac squad and use those points for 1 melta. Then I would also have enough for the predator.

Option 3:
10x Assault Marines, 1x Melta (200 pts)
1x Baal Predator (115 pts)

Do you think removing the plasma gun for the melta is worth it?

I'll be using the missile launcher and the RB for the tac squad like you mentioned. I also already added a sanguinary priest to the list for the sanguinary guard. I could keep him close to the assault squad as well.
 

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Do you think removing the plasma gun for the melta is worth it?
Absolutely. It makes your assault squad much more effective in its role as anti armour. I like taking a PG in my tactical squads at some higher (or very low) points games for that extra 'oh, you want to get closer to me?' effect but it would never mean a 10 man RAS goes without their special weapon. You can take flamers for free in a tactical squad anyway to assist with overwatch and torching big infantry units after jumping out of RB's. PG's good, just not as good as a more effective RAS.

I would also say that heavy bolter sponsons on the Baal are more important than a chapter banner in your SG, especially if you're giving them a Priest and running them with a 10 man RAS close for anti armour and so they get FnP. It is quite effective to have power weapons attacking with one more attack each turn, and it's also quite effective to have 6 extra heavy bolter shots each turn. I would suggest trying it both ways and seeing which one works out best for your list against your opponent's. My main reason for doing this is that if gives your opponent another primary target. The SG will already be high on the 'to kill' list, and the Baal with just a TLAC is good, but not as much of a threat as one with 10 AP4 infantry ruining shots. The SG will still be quite a threat, but then there's that sneaky Baal that they have to deal with just as much because it's ruining their troops on objectives. Just my two cents, I try to play more equally tough units and keep a few bruisers around so there's more than just one head to my attack.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the help.
This sounds good! I'll make those changes. (I'll edit the top post)

I would also say that heavy bolter sponsons on the Baal are more important than a chapter banner in your SG, especially if you're giving them a Priest and running them with a 10 man RAS close for anti armour and so they get FnP. It is quite effective to have power weapons attacking with one more attack each turn, and it's also quite effective to have 6 extra heavy bolter shots each turn. I would suggest trying it both ways and seeing which one works out best for your list against your opponent's.
I'll try to magnetize the heavy bolter sponsors for the Baal predator this way I could definitely try using both of those strategies.

Seems like the list is coming to a close. Any last changes I should make?
Thanks again!
 

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Personal experience makes me not like paying the 35 points for any RB turrets. I play two TLHB RB's every game I play pretty much and neither of them make it to the end of the game practically ever, and if one has a better turret on it than the other it would surely be popped first. I prefer the HB's to use on enemy infantry units, while leaving the anti armour to squads better for it. This comes down to style of play, but it means you don't have to make a turret GW hasn't and it means you have the points for sponsons on your Baal and a melta in your RAS. It arguable as to what will work better, but I would go with two units being buffed before I throw 35 points into a AV11 tank. That's really the last of the fat.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This comes down to style of play, but it means you don't have to make a turret GW hasn't and it means you have the points for sponsons on your Baal and a melta in your RAS. It arguable as to what will work better, but I would go with two units being buffed before I throw 35 points into a AV11 tank. That's really the last of the fat.
I'll try this out. My plan is to make things as customizable as possible. Even if it means having some extra marines modeled with different weapons.
Although won't I be 5 points shy from another melta in the assault squad?
 
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