[Ascendant]

Can units riding in a transport fire templates out?
If i have a tactical squad in a rhino, and want to fire a flamer out of the hatch, it seems like I have to place it touching the middle of the hatch ( the firing point), which is a friendly model, which isn't allowed. And yet, it doesn't seem like this makes total sense....

Any help?

 

[OIIIIIIO]

From firing point itself, pg 66 BRB. But what we do with templates is go from the hull of the vehicle itself, closest to the firing point. That is just the way our shop does it BTW.

 

[Unforgiven302]

This topic was discussed before and the general consensus was:

A: If you are playing friendly games, and winning isn't as important as just having a good game while keeping your friends and you on speaking terms then, yes, you can fire template weapons out of a fire point on a vehicle even if the template touches the vehicle.

OR...

B: If you want to be a rules lawyering dickhead who wants nothing more then to crush his/her opponent into the ground and will do anything to win at all costs, then no, you cannot fire a template out of a fire point of a vehicle if the template touches any part of the vehicle.

So, the only real question you have to ask yourself is, what type of player are you?

 

[jaws900]

slkap people who say you can't. Yes it's in thne rules....sort of. The Baal Preditor kicked this off big time as the Flamestorm Cannon isn't long enought to clear the frount of the tank.
I prefre to think of it in real terms. if you fire a flame thrower out of the top hatch of a tank will it damage the tank in anyway? No. Will it burn it's paint work? Maybe. Will it still melt the face of the guy standing next to it. Yes.
To always be save, confrem with your oppoent/ref if you cna do this and if not a tournment then slap your opponent upside the head until he agrees with you beacuse he's being an idiot.

 

[Flame80010]

imo the guy with the flamer just smashes a hole in the side of the rhino with his face, points the end out and BUUUURRRRRRRRNRNRNRNNNAAANNAAAA!!!!

on an ever so slightly more seirous note

isnt it messured from the hull of the vehical for fire points? (which would obviously support my theory) i rememebr reading a very similar question about this but it was burna boyz in a trukk not Marines in a Rhino

 

[don_mondo]

B: If you want to be a rules lawyering dickhead who wants nothing more then to crush his/her opponent into the ground and will do anything to win at all costs, then no, you cannot fire a template out of a fire point of a vehicle if the template touches any part of the vehicle.

Heck, by the rules, you can never fire a flamer. The template rules say it can't be placed touching any friendly models. They also say to place it touche=ing the base of the firing model. So which takes precedence?

Yes, you can fire a template weapon from a firing point on a vehicle. Just place it at the edge of the hatch, hull if the vehicle is open-topped, and flame away. I've played in 20+ US GW GTs, numerous indy tourneys, etc, and NEVER have I had anyone suggest that you couldn't fire a flamer from a vehicle. The only place it ever comes up in on these forums..........

 

[jaws900]

Heck, by the rules, you can never fire a flamer. The template rules say it can't be placed touching any friendly models. They also say to place it touche=ing the base of the firing model. So which takes precedence?

That is a very good and strong point. +1 rep for giving me perfect ammo for anyone who uses that argument.

 

[Herr-Flick]

imo the guy with the flamer just smashes a hole in the side of the rhino with his face, points the end out and BUUUURRRRRRRRNRNRNRNNNAAANNAAAA!!!!

on an ever so slightly more seirous note

isnt it messured from the hull of the vehical for fire points? (which would obviously support my theory) i rememebr reading a very similar question about this but it was burna boyz in a trukk not Marines in a Rhino

It is messured from the hull of the trukk becouse it is open topped, while the rhino is not and therefore has to shoot from its fiereing points.....

But is noncence if you ask me.
Its a fairly shure guess that this rule is meant to make shure you dont just flame half your squad to get the max ammount of enemey hit in, and should not be used to claim that flamers cant be shot out of vehicles that are not open topped.

 

[Stella Cadente]

So, the only real question you have to ask yourself is, what type of player are you?

or more importantly what kind of player is your opponent
::Useless asinine comment deleted from here::


-DK
that bit wasn't asinine

 

[gravmania]

This topic was discussed before and the general consensus was:

A: If you are playing friendly games, and winning isn't as important as just having a good game while keeping your friends and you on speaking terms then, yes, you can fire template weapons out of a fire point on a vehicle even if the template touches the vehicle.

OR...

B: If you want to be a rules lawyering dickhead who wants nothing more then to crush his/her opponent into the ground and will do anything to win at all costs, then no, you cannot fire a template out of a fire point of a vehicle if the template touches any part of the vehicle.

So, the only real question you have to ask yourself is, what type of player are you?

I actually find it very overpowered to shoot flamer templates from closed-topped-vehicles. To me its you and your entire shop who are the WAAC ruleslawyers. The nice thing would be to err on the safe side and not allow it.

The rule says it cannot touch "friendly" models, this clearly indicates models besides yourself, one is not "friendly" with oneself in the grammatical sense. Thus heavy flamer Razorbacks and Baals can shoot their flamer templates over/touching themselves.

 

[jaws900]

I actually find it very overpowered to shoot flamer templates from closed-topped-vehicles. To me its you and your entire shop who are the WAAC ruleslawyers. The nice thing would be to err on the safe side and not allow it.

The rule says it cannot touch "friendly" models, this clearly indicates models besides yourself, one is not "friendly" with oneself in the grammatical sense. Thus heavy flamer Razorbacks and Baals can shoot their flamer templates over/touching themselves.

However the fireer isn't on the board. It effectivly is the hatch.

 

[Herr-Flick]

Well a lot of vehicles have their firing points on the sides so they wont touch the vehicle itself, and personally i find it more overpowered that you can fire all the flamers from exactly the same point on the hull in an open topped weapon (but I'm an ork so i do love it )
Besides a unit inside a vehicle can only fire their weapons if the vehicle itself did not move more than 6" (or 7" with the ork red paint job) so unless you let that vehicle come quite close to you and don't move away from it in your turn you wont get hit that bad by it.

Assuming your firing from the front of the vehicle you have 6" of movement with the vehicle and then a 8" (i believe thats the length of the template) for a total of 14" of possible dmg range.
While at the same time you could have disembarked 2,99" walked 6 shot your flamers/pistols (witch are ofc 2.99" closer so have a possible dmg range of 16.99") and then charge.

 

[Iraqiel]

I've always played that for the purposes of flamer templates, the firing point is treated as a cupola and .: as a part of the vehicle. The way rhinos work, a marine would be standing waist high out the top, so to fire he won't be concerned with damaging the vehicle, exactly the same as cupola combi-flamers.

 

[Grinnsira]

As I read this I thought of the movie "Aliens" by far the best of the seires IMO. The Marine stod at the door with the flamethrower sticking out of the doorway firing it. That is how I picture it being used.

On the sad note "Sorry Bob those guys blow a hole in the rhino because I did not want a few drops of burning jelly to land on the roof and mess up the paint."

The guy sticking himself out the top hatch firing the flamer is not going to hit the rhino with it. If you fire out the top hatch you are hurting yourself anyway because you are grting less range then firing from the side hatch if you positioned yourself right.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

If we are allowing the reality card to be played, if you fire your flame-thrower slightly upward it will actually miss the tank.

Which raises that slightly more apposite comment of whether firing flamers from vehicles is more relevant in Cities of Death where you actually have a vertical axis to consider.

I have always viewed the not touching rule as applying to models other than the firer; hence, as the model firing from the hatch is not actually present but is instead represented by the vehicle, touching the vehicle is necessary rather than just permitted.

 

[Daddysen]

I assumed the same that the model was part of the transport until he disembarks, and if not then why would they have combi flamers and that super sexy flamestorm cannon all of these things touch the hull of the vehicle they are mounted on. Now say if a Seraphim with duel hand flamers landed on one of the rhinos in her army i dont think she should be alowed to shoot as she is not part of the rhino and her flamer template would touch the tank. thanks just my thoughts.

 

[Azezel]

The seraphim thing is debatable. When firing a template one has to nominate a 'level'. If the Seraphim were standing on a rhino and firing into a building with several floors, the player has to nominate which floor is affected. The Rhino would presumably, count as level with the ground floor and bee unnafected if the player nominated any of the upper floors.

The Seraphim certainly could not land on a Rhino and shoot at models on the ground, though, that's right out.

 

[Herr-Flick]

I assumed the same that the model was part of the transport until he disembarks, and if not then why would they have combi flamers and that super sexy flamestorm cannon all of these things touch the hull of the vehicle they are mounted on. Now say if a Seraphim with duel hand flamers landed on one of the rhinos in her army i dont think she should be alowed to shoot as she is not part of the rhino and her flamer template would touch the tank. thanks just my thoughts.

The seraphim is not allowed to land on the rhino (see BRB pg.52 under the header movement) jump infantry is not allowed to land on top of other models.

If you could land on other models it would be impossible for the other team to reach you by a charge seeing that they would have to charge trough the tank.
Or if you would jump on an enemy vehicle it would not be able to hit you most likely and the movement of the vehicle would give trouble 2 because you'd move the model of your enemy 2.

 

[DuesIncarmine]

this is simple; a tank not much it can do to hurt itself with, but with a squad i can see the hole friendly model thing, but as far as what your asking you are fine.