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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As the title would seem to suggest, I finally decided to go full into Boltaction with a 5th Rangers Battalion themed army. Well, more like I was up till 5:00A.M. working on dev bio and somehow managed to order a box of Rangers, but the why isn't really important. ANYWAY, I was wondering if I could get some help from y'all on idea for building a list, or possibly critique on one I've made.

As it stands, the list is as follows:

HQ:

1x Vet 2nd Lt with a 2 vet entourage.

1x Reg Forward Air Observer w/ 2 vet entourage.

Inf:

1x 11 man Rangers squad w/
- 3x SMG
- 1x BAR
- 11x AT nades

1x 11 man Rangers squad w/
- 1x BAR
- 1x M1919A6 (.30)

1x Vet Bazooka team

1x Vet Sniper team w/ 2x SMG

1x M4A1 (75mm) w/
- 1x HMG
- Cancel 'Easily catches fire'

That, assuming I've done my math right, should bring me up to around 990.

So, what do you guys think? Suggestions moving forward? I'm aiming for a Normandy list here, so keep that in mind, please.

Any help is much appreciated. :grin:

EDIT: Apparently we have a subforum for warlord. Whoops.
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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I've yet to get a game in but that looks alright to me. :)
There's an online platoon builder here. :good:



EDIT: Apparently we have a subforum for warlord. Whoops.
No worries, moved it for you mate :good:
 

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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
Welcome to the wonderful world of BA. Fantastic system, best I've played in 25 years of gaming.

As to the list;

1x Vet 2nd Lt with a 2 vet entourage.
Because of the free assault rifles they can get Germans are really the only force in which it's useful to take more than a single buddy for your officer. If you only give him one buddy they are also harder to hit, with an extra -1 to hit modifier for being a small team. Those points can then go to buffing squads.

1x Reg Forward Air Observer w/ 2 vet entourage.
You can't mix skill levels in a unit. Reg observer means only reg buddies. Again, two man teams are more economical. These guys also have a nasty habit of blowing up their own units, much like real life. Sure, you get a second free air strike, but that also means there's a 1 in 3 chance instead of 1 in 6 that you will roll a 1 to see if it comes in, which means your opponent gets to use it on you. That Sherman won't last long if that happens. After a few mishaps with my USMC observer, I sat him down and had a chat, telling him he would never see the table again unless he performed in the next game. He obviously took it badly, and both rolls came up 1, which let my opponent kill a 150pt vet squad, and a 230pt 105mm Sherman. The observer was summarily executed shortly after.:(

1x 11 man Rangers squad w/
- 3x SMG
- 1x BAR
- 11x AT nades
Nice big hard hitting squad, but 8 man vet squads are more optimum. If you take three men from each squad, plus the third man from the officer and observer, you'll have three 8 man vet squads, which is important when you consider the dice mechanic of the game. Some lists you go up against, particularly Russians or Japanese, could have twice as many dice in the bag as you, which becomes a problem when your opponent inevitably gets a good run of dice and starts whittling down, or worse, stacking pins on those small elite squads of yours. The AT grenades are also a waste of 22 points. Infantry heavy lists are actually nearly better off ignoring tanks rather than trying to assault them. Those points could be more usefully spent going towards getting something like a flame thrower in the list, or up grading a 2nd Lt to 1st Lt. That +2 to morale could make all the difference in a small force that will take a lot of pins.

1x 11 man Rangers squad w/
- 1x BAR
- 1x M1919A6 (.30)
Fluff wise they make sense, but LMGs are way over priced. It's one of the few big faults in the game. The BAR basically gives you the same boost for a quarter of the price. The BAR gives you 1 extra shot that doesn't suffer a movement penalty for 5 points. The LMG also only gives you one extra shot when you consider that you lose the loaders rifle shot, but suffers a -1 to hit if it moves. If you drop it, and give them the 3 SMGs, it would leave you 11 points, which when added to the 22 from dropping the AT grenades above, would be close to giving you the points to get a reg medium mortar or flame thrower.

1x M4A1 (75mm) w/
- 1x HMG
- Cancel 'Easily catches fire'
Veteran is the only way to go with Yank tanks to make the most of the gyro-stabilisers, so good stuff. My advice would be to go for a 105mm sherman though. The medium howitzer is much more useful at killing infantry, but can still stack pins on enemy armour as well, which can be just as effective as damaging it. Hit an enemy reg tank with it, you could do d3 pins, meaning there's a chance your opponent will need to roll 6 or lower on 2d6 for it's motivation check next time he activates it. It's also 24 pts cheaper.

1x Vet Bazooka team
78pts for something that starts off with a -1 to hit modifier? No thanks. When you consider that another 5 man squad of rangers would only be 70pts, and much more versatile and useful, its a no-brainer.
That, assuming I've done my math right, should bring me up to around 990.
979 when you adjust for the 2 reg buddies for your observer. Those 21 spare points could be added to the 22 from the AT grenades and 13 from dropping the LMG for a total of 54, only 16 off another Ranger squad. You could get those points by not cancelling Easily Catches Fire on the Sherman, and only giving it an MMG instead of a HMG, which has had a lot of it's usefulness Errata'd away.

So, in summation, IMO in this game you need at least 4 infantry squads, whatever their level. Drop the air observer and bazooka, freeing up 173pts that could go towards a squad of vet engineers with a flamethrower. If you look into the gear the Rangers had on D Day, they would fit right in fluff wise as well. They wouldn't have the Ranger rule, but they can pack a lot of very useful fire power in.

Apologies if it appears that I'm trying to rip your list, these are just things that I've learned over the last year or so of playing. I hope you find something useful in there. This link is also very useful for list building, and is totally free. You can also email the lists you yourself. Enjoy.

easyarmy.com

EDIT: @Tawa ninja'd me with the link.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
No worries, moved it for you mate :good:
Thank you, for both the move and the link. Should be helpful. :grin:

Because of the free assault rifles they can get Germans are really the only force in which it's useful to take more than a single buddy for your officer. If you only give him one buddy they are also harder to hit, with an extra -1 to hit modifier for being a small team. Those points can then go to buffing squads.
Sounds like a good plan; third man won't be much good if he gets shot, anyway.


You can't mix skill levels in a unit. Reg observer means only reg buddies. Again, two man teams are more economical. These guys also have a nasty habit of blowing up their own units, much like real life. Sure, you get a second free air strike, but that also means there's a 1 in 3 chance instead of 1 in 6 that you will roll a 1 to see if it comes in, which means your opponent gets to use it on you. That Sherman won't last long if that happens. After a few mishaps with my USMC observer, I sat him down and had a chat, telling him he would never see the table again unless he performed in the next game. He obviously took it badly, and both rolls came up 1, which let my opponent kill a 150pt vet squad, and a 230pt 105mm Sherman. The observer was summarily executed shortly after.:(
Well shit, I was looking to shave off a few points there. Anyway, despite the epic-ness of the idea of calling in a couple mustangs and blowing the living holy hell out of a few SS units, I'd rather not live to see the day where my rangers are reduced to people paste by six .50s.


Nice big hard hitting squad, but 8 man vet squads are more optimum. If you take three men from each squad, plus the third man from the officer and observer, you'll have three 8 man vet squads, which is important when you consider the dice mechanic of the game. Some lists you go up against, particularly Russians or Japanese, could have twice as many dice in the bag as you, which becomes a problem when your opponent inevitably gets a good run of dice and starts whittling down, or worse, stacking pins on those small elite squads of yours. The AT grenades are also a waste of 22 points. Infantry heavy lists are actually nearly better off ignoring tanks rather than trying to assault them. Those points could be more usefully spent going towards getting something like a flame thrower in the list, or up grading a 2nd Lt to 1st Lt. That +2 to morale could make all the difference in a small force that will take a lot of pins.
Will do. Probably'll save me a few bucks on infantry boxes, too, so no issues on this front.

Veteran is the only way to go with Yank tanks to make the most of the gyro-stabilisers, so good stuff. My advice would be to go for a 105mm sherman though. The medium howitzer is much more useful at killing infantry, but can still stack pins on enemy armour as well, which can be just as effective as damaging it. Hit an enemy reg tank with it, you could do d3 pins, meaning there's a chance your opponent will need to roll 6 or lower on 2d6 for it's motivation check next time he activates it. It's also 24 pts cheaper.
Chucking 105mm's out of a tank? Yeah, I can live with that.


78pts for something that starts off with a -1 to hit modifier? No thanks. When you consider that another 5 man squad of rangers would only be 70pts, and much more versatile and useful, its a no-brainer.
This I can also live with, though I'm a bit worried about the 75mm German guns I'm bound to run into. That being said, the poor guys will probably get shot to hell before than can do anything to begin with, so this isn't a huge loss.


979 when you adjust for the 2 reg buddies for your observer. Those 21 spare points could be added to the 22 from the AT grenades and 13 from dropping the LMG for a total of 54, only 16 off another Ranger squad. You could get those points by not cancelling Easily Catches Fire on the Sherman, and only giving it an MMG instead of a HMG, which has had a lot of it's usefulness Errata'd away.
:( But I love .50's. Ah, well, the enemy is just as dead with a .30, I suppose.

Apologies if it appears that I'm trying to rip your list, these are just things that I've learned over the last year or so of playing. I hope you find something useful in there. This link is also very useful for list building, and is totally free. You can also email the lists you yourself. Enjoy.

easyarmy.com

EDIT: @Tawa ninja'd me with the link.
No worries. I'd much rather honesty, especially considering it will likely save me money in the long run.

Right, so new list!

HQ Units:

1st Lieutenant (vet) w/
- 1x Infantry (vet)

Infantry:

Ranger Squad w/
- 3x Additional Men
- 3x SMG
- 1x BAR

Ranger Squad w/
- 3x Additional Men
- 3x SMG
- 1x BAR

Engineer Squad (reg) w/
- 3x Additional Men
- 1x NCO SMG
- 2x BAR
- 1x Flamer

Engineer Squad (reg) w/
- 3x Additional Men
- 1x NCO SMG
- 2x BAR

Sniper Team (vet) w/
- 1x SMG

Medium Mortar Team (vet)

Medium Mortar Team (vet)

Vehicles:
M4 Sherman 105mm Howitzer (vet) w/
- 1x Pintle- Mounted .30cal

Which should bring me to a grand total of 995 points, give or take one or two.

General plan: Lob shells shells until the enemy either feths the hell off or are pissing their collective pants in the largest holes they can make for themselves, in which case I send the Rangers in first with the engies taking up the rear and do some cleaning crew work. Sniper should be able to keep the urine-soaked baddies heads down, if the arties don't prove to be enough, or take down MG's and the like to allow my assault squads the room they need to advance. If an enemy sniper pops up, and - god forbid- manages to take out Sgt. Bojangles (what I've decided to name my sniper), the artillery should be enough to blow whatever building their camping in, or wherever they've decided to play bush-wookie, to Brisbane (not to say Brisbane is hell, I'm sure it's wonderful, but it is very far away from Normandy) and back.

How's that sound?

EDIT: Just looked and it seems that the Normandy RP only allows for one mortar team, so I'll have to axe one. Maybe just one heavy mortar with a spotter? Not sure there.

EDIT: EDIT: If I were to subtract the 130 for the two 60mm's and the 2 for the SMG on my sniper team, I could then replace those mortars with one vet heavy mortar and a light field artillery piece, though I would sit at 1001. That being said, I'm not sure anyone would gripe about that point, and if they did I could just adjust points elsewhere.
 

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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
On the whole, that is a good solid list. The small number of dice is mitigated by the amount of very hard to kill vets in it.

Medium Mortar Team (vet)

Medium Mortar Team (vet)
You can only take one of these unless you take a second platoon, which means having to buy another officer. You could take a reg light howitzer for 45pts though, which has slightly less range, but can direct fire if it can see the target, unlike the mortar, which has to range in indirectly on a target.

Which should bring me to a grand total of 995 points, give or take one or two.
Put the points towards another SMG in one of the engineer squads. Never leave points unspent.:victory:

A handy thing to know when collecting Rangers, while you get some good extra metal bits in their box to mark them out as Rangers, if it comes to the stage where you might need a second box, get the Nisei one. The US plastic sprues are all the same, but it has a metal flame thrower and bangalore torpedoes in it as well. Allows for extra customisation.

Another tip is regarding smoke. Any howitzer or mortar can fire it, and nothing can see through it. Sometimes it's the better option than trying to range in on a 6 with HE. Even if you don't range in with it, your opponent can only move the template 6", so it's bound to block LOS for something in his back table. A medium mortar and light howitzer both put out a 4" template, so after 2 turns of dropping them, you could have a very nice wall of smoke to run your troops up behind.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, so list version 3, and I've decided to go with the 105mm. How's it look now?

EDIT: Also, pretty PDF version.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the help, bud. I've got this and another list written up, so I'll see which one works better for me. Pretty much the same between the two, though the second includes includes more AT.
 

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Hey guys, I have also decided to take a plunge into Bolt Action.

I am planning on getting a 1,000 point Brit force to start - heh start - since it seems that the games my friends (who already beat me into starting) have a decent mix of axis and americans, and another friend is thinking of getting Japan, so I can play "globally" (doesn't hurt that I play the KoB and he plays the EotBS in Dystopian Wars)

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Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions on what to buy to start my army? Since I have yet to buy anything, and I do not know what is really a decent buy.

My group is not necessarily against buying 3rd party miniatures (since there are a bunch) so it's more so what is the best buy to start.

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lastly I apologize for the thread necro-ing, but I felt that there was no need to recreate a thread of similar value.
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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Good stuff :)

Currently I'm building up a Japanese force. Mixed IJA/SNLF.
Personally I use the plastics from Warlord Games and they are very nice I think.

I've not seen any other nationality frames in the flesh, but I believe @Logaan or @KhornesFist may be able to tell you about British plastics :good:
 

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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
Hey @Fallen, welcome to Bolt Action.

Suggestions for building Brits? For infantry, buy the commando box. It has everything the standard box has, along with berets, daggers and Bergen back packs. Even if you don't use them as commandos, these bits can be used to personalise your minis, like using berets to denote officers or sgts.

A 25pdr is a solid arty option. Fires as either a light howitzer or light AT gun, which is very handy.

They have access to a huge range of tanks, including all the US ones, so that's really a matter of personal preference. I suppose it depends on if you are going for a themed list or not. They also have access to a huge range of armoured cars, the best if which IMO is the AEC mkIII.

Their infantry choices are very good. Alongside the standard infantry you can take commandos, which are infiltrating close combat monsters, Paras, which are stubborn, and very hard to kill, Ghurkas, who are absolute close combat butchers. They roll twice the normal attack dice while halving your opponents. And finally Chindits, who can infiltrate and have the American move and shoot special rule.

Throw in a sniper, medium mortar, your free arty observer and maybe a flame thrower and you'd almost be sorted.

As for list building, I am a big advocate of a minimum 4 infantry squads, whatever the troop quality. Any less can make for a very inflexible list.
 

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Hey guys, I wrote up a Brit list made up from the main rule book's army list section, is there much of a difference between it and the Brit/commonwealth book that it is a big enough difference that I should buy it?

I ask since the last couple of "play test" games I was involved with I had access to anti-tank rifles and observers for my mortar teams, among other things, and I do not see any options to do such (or I am reading things too fast and missing something) and I was kind of bummed.

Also, what are the standard size point lists? The few games I've played I was in charge of 500 points (it was a 4v4, and a 3v3 game, though, so that might have had something to do with it).

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Tactic questions

For mortars, is it worth to just buy them as "inexperienced" to save points (again see observer so that they can hide) since they hit on a set roll, rather than a modifier like normal guns?

at 1,000 points (since that is the most that I have seen my local group play at) is it worth to add a 2nd HQ?

Also, from experience from the few games I have played, tanks are rather "unimpressive" for the amount of points that one spends on them. Is there a decent British tank (since you know, tanks :good:) that is good at low point games? And is good in such a way that it is like the 25 pound gun, where it can shoot at either armor or infantry and it efficiently?

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Army List (in case the PDF sucks or doesn't work) built to 1k points.

HQ Pts

2nd Lieutenant Regular 50
Add 2 Regular 20
Forward Arty Regular 0

Infantry

Squad 1 Regular 50
Add 5 Regular 50
LMG 20

Squad 2 Regular 50
Add 5 Regular 50
LMG 20

Squad 3 Regular 50
Add 5 Regular 50
LMG 20

Squad 4 Regular 50
Add 5 Regular 50
LMG 20

MMG Squad Regular 50
MMG Squad Regular 50

Sniper Squad Vet 65

Mortar Team Regular 50
Mortar Team Regular 50

Artillery

25 Pound Gun Regular 50
25 Pound Gun Regular 50

Vehicles

Jeep Vet 25
MMG 15
Jeep Vet 25
MMG 15
Total 995
 

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Dazed and confused.
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Have a look at the EasyArmy link posted on the first page. It's a free list builder, and has all the units from the British army book, which supersedes the lists in the rule book. There are actually a few points differences between the two as well.

As for the list, you won't be long about realising that squad LMGs are way over costed for what is essentially only one extra shot. The 80 points you've spent could get you another 8 man squad, which would be far more useful. MMGs suffer from a similar over cost. Just look at the price of your jeeps. They can take an MMG and move around and shoot with it for the same price as a static team.

25pdrs are a great gun, but to take two you have to take two platoons, which means you have to pay for another officer. Same goes for the mortars.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, so a bit of a continuation off of the previous list:

I've been doing a bit of research, since I've finally gotten everything I need, and I've found something that might be neat to try with my Rangers. During WW2, Ranger platoons would be comprised off an HQ section, two assault sections and one weapons section. The two assault sections would then split up into two elements, the firing and maneuvering elements. The firing element would be comprised of the M1919A4 gunner, the support crew and the senior NCO, and the junior NCO would take the rifleman. This got me thinking about how effective that sort of style might be in a list, so I wrote this up:

View attachment Overlord - late july-august.pdf

The idea is that each half of the two assault sections will function as one squad until they engage, at which point the fire element will lay down as much fir as they can while the maneuvering element flanks and lays on the hurt from (hopefully) a better angle. Sounds good in my head, but how effective will it be? Bit of a hard question to answer without knowing more about what I'm playing against, but does anyone have any experience with a similar builds? If so, I'd love to hear what you think.
 

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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
I like themed lists like these. All vet lists are really fun to play.

The tactic of dividing your squads into fire base and assault is sound, I've done it with my USMC list, and am currently working on a Fallschirmjager list based on a similar style. I tend to like bigger squads though.

There are a couple of things that could save you points though. As everything is vet, you can afford to demote the officer to a 2nd Lt. Also, anti tank grenades are only any good in big 10 or 12 man squads due to the rules for assaulting tanks. By my reckoning that's 47pts saved, which could go towards two more units. Those two extra dice in the bag could make a huge difference. A vet medic and a jeep for the bazooka would only be 55pts, and could probably make up the rest of the points by dropping the SMGs from the support squads.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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7,046 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I like themed lists like these. All vet lists are really fun to play.

The tactic of dividing your squads into fire base and assault is sound, I've done it with my USMC list, and am currently working on a Fallschirmjager list based on a similar style. I tend to like bigger squads though.

There are a couple of things that could save you points though. As everything is vet, you can afford to demote the officer to a 2nd Lt. Also, anti tank grenades are only any good in big 10 or 12 man squads due to the rules for assaulting tanks. By my reckoning that's 47pts saved, which could go towards two more units. Those two extra dice in the bag could make a huge difference. A vet medic and a jeep for the bazooka would only be 55pts, and could probably make up the rest of the points by dropping the SMGs from the support squads, or the mortar spotter. I have found that bazookas need something nippy to get them around. You hold them in reserve or outflanking, waiting to see where your opponent brings on his armour, and hopefully pounce by coming on the board on a road and driving double the distance.
I see what you're saying with the jeep, and I like the idea, as I did before; however, I don't own a jeep model, which is a bit of an issue as the whole army needs to be WYSIWYG (because I'm anal retentive). That being said, I can drop the Lt down a rank, remove the spotter from the mortar and a BAR from one fire element and replace those with a minimum unit of combat engineers. That gives me one more order and six-ish more shots AND I can model them up as troops from the 121st combat engineer battalion, which makes me happy. How's that sound?
 

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Dazed and confused.
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An extra squad of vets is always a good thing. Probably a better option than anything else of equivalent points value.

The problem I've found with small elite armies is that you will come across those Russian or Jap hordes that will get a run of order dice that allows them to stack pins on your best units before you get to respond. I played a Russian list with 18 dice last week, and it sucks balls. Even vets start to feel the pinch with thee or more pins, especially when trying to shoot something.
 
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