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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There is little doubt that the Imperium in its current state must be as paranoid and cruel as it is. Heretics will pop up when they can, and will spread unless dealt with harshly. The inquisition is vital to preventing heretics from taking over. However, in the long run, these institutions might only be helping Chaos.

As we all know, the immaterium is not inherently evil by nature. When Space Marines and Cadian Guardsman face off against Abbadon's demon army, they are simple looking into a mirror in a sense. The immaterium is made up of the thoughts and feelings of the sentient creatures of the galaxy. Naturally, the feelings of hatred, xenophobia, etc. would be reflected into Chaos. All our wars, genocides, and so forth have fed the Chaos Gods and turned them into the monsters they are now. Is a space marine's faith really that different from a chaos marine's fanatacism? We saw that when the Eldar embarked on a hedonistic splurge, they created a new Chaos God that reflected their own hedonism. Slaanesh.

Likewise, Chaos appeals to heretics by offering "freedom" and personal happiness. In the current state of the universe, chaos seems to offer an escape from the anti-individualistic, totalitarian nature of the galactic powers. Sort of like how a stressed out man will turn to hard alcohol. So, all of this points to that one of the best ways to fight chaos would simply be to remain positive and happy. Not Eldar hedonism happy: More like bhuddism happy. I imagine that would have a sort of calming effect on Chaos.

Sadly, that is not a viable option. Going back to the material universe, the inquisition and the arbites rule through a nessicary form of terror and force. When an inquisitor orders the destruction of an entire world, he often has little choice unless the chaos is to spread. Arbites must be harsh for similar reasons. Yet this also fuels negative feelings and sense of oppression that help the Chaos gods. So, the Imperium is in a sense caught in a viscious cycle where it has to strengthen its arch enemy in order to survive. It is sad, as there is little I can think of that the Imperium could do as an alternative. The cycle is not impossible to break, but it would be hard.

Thoughts?
 

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It's like cancer. You take the chemo knowing it hurts now, but it's better than the alternative.

Arbites aren't generally too much harsher than today's police (less harsh depending on your skin color, actually :D), and the extermination of an entire world is not a too common occurrence, even for an Inquisitor. Plus the descruction by an Inquisitor, it's probably not too well known since the people affected are generally, well, dead. And the Inquisitor isn't doing it for pleasure, knowledge, disease, or general death, so it's not like it's feeding the Chaos gods, either.

Plus look at the alternative, how would an entire world erupting into Chaos worship look on the balance? Surely keeping people underwraps is the better choice, no?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am not saying that the inquisition should be softer. They have no choice but to be harsh. They have to be that way.

However, it is not like chemo: in the long run, chemo does not help make the cancer stronger when it comes back. But what choice do you have except to take the chemo?

What I am saying is that the only weapon the Imperium has available against Chaos really helps Chaos in the long run. It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If the inquisitors are to continue the way they are going, their intolerance and so forth only feeds the intolerance of the Chaos Gods. But if the inquisitors were to lighten up, the Chaos Gods would be able to strike hard.

It really is sad.
 

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Who exactly is fueling the Chaos gods? Are you saying people become angry in response to the harsh actions of the Inquisition or the fact the Inquisition's methods are fueling the Chaos gods?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Who exactly is fueling the Chaos gods? Are you saying people become angry in response to the harsh actions of the Inquisition or the fact the Inquisition's methods are fueling the Chaos gods?
I think the 1st one is more or less the primary contributor. But the 2nd one might also have something to do with it. Hate breeds hate.

After all, the Chaos gods feed off of the emotions felt by people, no? So, they should reflect those emotions in their overall behavior.
 

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Keep in mind that Inquisitors are near mythical figures. Few people have met them, less even know they have. And their actions aren't printed in the local newspaper. If a world goes missing the people aren't going to be told the truth.

Also remember that destroying whole worlds is very, very, rare. More than likely, the Inquisitor is there to hunt down and destroy particular Chaos cults.
 

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I don't think the inquisition itself upsets the masses. They don't need to. The Imperium is a miserable, cutthroat enough of a place as is. And it's that misery and misunderstanding of chaos, in part, that makes people turn to them. Of course, people will feed chaos whether or not they worship them. Buddhist tranquility might be able to minimize humanity's role in influencing chaos, but that wouldn't be possible on a mass scale on Earth, let alone the 40K universe.
 

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As I've seen a few people around here say; Chaos is the extremes of all emotions, so even if you were just feeling happy about your new dog, it would feed 1 of the Gods and be corrupted into something else, killing the dog to keep it for yourself being an example. My point is, no matter what, Chaos is going to be "fed", let's just hope the Emperor comes back before it's too late...
 

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That's the thing, I don't think just having emotions feeds the Chaos gods. Just because I eat my favorite candy bar doesn't mean that Slaanesh is getting off on it, you know.

Cain mentions in the Cain series that many "chaos" worshipers dabble into Chaos worship without it leading to anything.

Plus look at the Orks or Tyranids. They're absolute killing machines. Does this mean Khorne is being fed?

If it done in their name, it probably doesn't feed the Chaos gods.

The outlier of course being the birth of Slaanesh. Then again it was the entire Eldar race and apparently their emotional sensations are far beyond the limits of human feeling.
 

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That's the thing, I don't think just having emotions feeds the Chaos gods. Just because I eat my favorite candy bar doesn't mean that Slaanesh is getting off on it, you know.
Each mortal's soul is represented in the Warp, the analogy of a brief flicker of light is often used to describe this. Every time an emotion is felt it corresponds in the warp. And then goes on to feed a Chaos Power or contribute to another growing entity.

Plus look at the Orks or Tyranids. They're absolute killing machines. Does this mean Khorne is being fed?
Its assumed that Orks do not feed or empower Khorne due to the fact that their racial psyche is attuned to Gork and Mork.
 

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I always took that as being the whole point of the Chaos Gods in 40K, they are impossible to defeat because the very act of trying to destroy them feeds them and makes them stronger.
To make war on something so big you first have to plan and scheme, to hope that you can win. This feed Tzeench.
Humanity's only real weapon is violence and destruction, righteous anger. This feeds Khorne.
Humanity takes small pleasure in it's victories, imagine the ecstasy of a world saved from the clutches of chaos. This feeds Slaanesh.
And to those who have failed there is only complete dispair. This feeds Nurgle.

As for the actions of other races, if they have a shadow in the warp then they help feed the Chaos Gods in the same way.
Even the smallest or most innocent seeming emotion will feed one of the major powers in some way, it's how they survive and how they taint their followers.
Khorne doesn't advertise for followers by saying "Join up with me and you too could be an insane axe wielding maniac who would just as happily chop your wife and children to pieces as you would an enemy on the battle field."
In the same way Tzeench doesn't say "Worship me and get a chicken's head for shits and giggles!"
It starts small, a plot to take advantage of a situation, a momentary loss of temper and if you're (un)fortunate enough to catch that gods attention then it develops further.
So yes, everything the Imperium does feeds the chaos powers, that's the beauty of the whole situation!
 

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So if the basic assumption that humans will contribute to the Chaos gods, period, then the actions of arbites and Inquisitors likely lessens Chaos. I'll display it numerically for easier understanding:

A galaxy without arbites and Inquisitors accrues 5000 Chaos worship points a year.

A galaxy with them accrues, say, 4500 Chaos worship points a year.

Yes, there is still a "gain" in Chaos strength, but a lesser amount overall. One may say they contribute to Chaos worship, but they reduce it far more than they add.
 

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Not really, the Chaos Gods don't "need" worship to thrive.
Look at it this way, the Eldar did not worship Slaanesh. They engaged in acts of extreme depravity, hedonism and sadism but they didn't worship a god called Slaanesh.
Space Marines (at the least the loyalist ones) don't worship Khorne but the very existance of geneticaly enhanced killing machines will strengthen Khorne.

The whole 40K universe is a catch 22 position, there's no real way out, Chaos cannot be defeated all the time there are beings with psychic abilities.
 

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the real problem

The Imperium true problem is a massive cover up on the past, thing about it how hard would it be to elimanate evere refferce to Guandi and Martin luther with all the peace advocates gone all that left are the spartans, the Bismarks the villions of are history to idelize. now even if this was some, 42 million years ago ahat abou the actvist who came after? I bet my shiny bolter that peace actvist would crop up as soon as we met are first alien race and way before that evere few years or so we get a masive movment of peace activest from black, to women to , now, gay rights what happend to all of them? the inqustion hiding anythign that threated there apsulte power, a protest on the streets, send out the space marines! and cal the peaceful leaders hertics and ,since we have power of life and death over evere one let me take the text book and remove any referce to peaceful protest working,, change this that, and done deal we have absulte power none can change this with out being call a hertic and sentecned to death, for the good of the imperium!!":so_happy: you disagree? HERTIC!!:ireful2:
 

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The Imperium true problem is a massive cover up on the past, thing about it how hard would it be to elimanate evere refferce to Guandi and Martin luther with all the peace advocates gone all that left are the spartans, the Bismarks the villions of are history to idelize. now even if this was some, 42 million years ago ahat abou the actvist who came after? I bet my shiny bolter that peace actvist would crop up as soon as we met are first alien race and way before that evere few years or so we get a masive movment of peace activest from black, to women to , now, gay rights what happend to all of them? the inqustion hiding anythign that threated there apsulte power, a protest on the streets, send out the space marines! and cal the peaceful leaders hertics and ,since we have power of life and death over evere one let me take the text book and remove any referce to peaceful protest working,, change this that, and done deal we have absulte power none can change this with out being call a hertic and sentecned to death, for the good of the imperium!!":so_happy: you disagree? HERTIC!!:ireful2:
No offense, I'm dyslexic myself but please give the spell check a go next time!
 

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The Imperium true problem is a massive cover up on the past
The reason the past is covered up (next to no one in the Imperium knows about the Heresy, Traitor Astartes/Primarchs, Chaos etc.) is because if Chaos (and the effects its had - The Heresy being the major one) was common knowledge, you would probably get a lot more willing servants of Chaos. And it would dangerously damage the Imperial Cult, why worship a god who has been defeated and basically killed?

So essentially the reason its covered up is to prevent countless more rebellions, Chaos cults etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I frankly do not believe that the situation is doomed.

The Chaos gods only get significant strength from extreme emotions. As someone said, eating a chocolate bar does not give Slaanesh much power. Nor does playing a game of risk strengthen Tzeentch. I imagine that it would be like an exponential function as 2 to the power of X.

So therefore, Chaos victory is not a sure thing. Mild emotions and having non-hedonistic happiness would probably do damage to the Chaos Gods over time. Unfortunately, the Imperium can't really do that.
 

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I frankly do not believe that the situation is doomed.

The Chaos gods only get significant strength from extreme emotions. As someone said, eating a chocolate bar does not give Slaanesh much power. Nor does playing a game of risk strengthen Tzeentch. I imagine that it would be like an exponential function as 2 to the power of X.

So therefore, Chaos victory is not a sure thing. Mild emotions and having non-hedonistic happiness would probably do damage to the Chaos Gods over time. Unfortunately, the Imperium can't really do that.
Still an optimist? I`m with you on this opinion. Despite what all the mortal followers out there will have you believe, chaos will inevitably lose.

How`s this for a human victory?

1: Empy dies.

2: Chaos takes over.

3: C`tan wake up, very grumpy.

4: C`tan seal off warp forever (we all know they can do this!)

5: C`tan enslave humanity. Pariah gene becomes prominent.

6: Humans fight back. Fight for milennia. Steal necron technology. Somehow kill the c`tan. (don`t ask, I said SOMEHOW)

7: Humanity dominates, with shiny new tech and immunity to warp influence.

8: UP YOURS CHAOS! :p


Extremely unlikely I know, but optimistic to be sure!:laugh:
 

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Nice Idea but it falls down a bit when you get to point five.

How`s this for a human victory?

1: Empy dies.

2: Chaos takes over.

3: C`tan wake up, very grumpy.

4: C`tan seal off warp forever (we all know they can do this!)

5: C`tan enslave humanity. Pariah gene becomes prominent.
5: C'tan enslave humanity, humanity gets turned into big shiny metal dudes with no will of there own, C'tan eats the galaxy.
 

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Nice Idea but it falls down a bit when you get to point five.



5: C'tan enslave humanity, humanity gets turned into big shiny metal dudes with no will of there own, C'tan eats the galaxy.
No, only the willing servants are turned into shiny metal things. The rest are cattle. Would you settle for being cattle? Didn`t think so.
 
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