[mgtymouze]

With the release of the last Chaos Space Marine Codex, the points cost for a CSM Rhino is way cheaper than a Codex Space Marine Chapter Rhino. After doing some research the cost for a Dark Angels Rhino is the same as my CSM rhino and a Blood Angels is 5 points more but has overcharged engines. The Imperial Fist player in my gaming group keeps whining about how cheesy my Black Legion army is because the Codex is cheesy(his words). Well in an effort to shut him up I was going to propose to the rest of my gaming group that he be allowed to take his Rhinos at the same cost of mine (Both Dark Angels and Black Legion). Does this seem fair to you guys or am I being overly generous?

Oh and a final note. My black legion runs 4 Troop choices and is called cheesy by this guy. Any opinions would be appreciated and I hope I posted this in the right area. Thanks.

 

[Sinizter]

Sounds to me like he is just frustrated by your chaos army and rather than blame his own poor list or tactics wished to instead place the blame on the codex instead.

 

[mgtymouze]

Well this is the same dude that runs a 621pt command squad :shok:. 1/2 the time he will throw out 2 tac squads of 5 men just to meet the bare min. Oh well, if you want to see my standard army I posted it in the army list forum. I'll see how the boys do me in the tourny next weekend.

 

[bl0203]

Its sound like your being fare and generous, four troops choices sounds like a fair/friendly army core. I've found out you just can't please everyone no matter how nice you are... :angry:

 

[Dirge Eterna]

Anyone who has a CS over 300 points can not call people cheesy. It's written in the big book of unwritten rules.

I say you're being TOO generous. It's in the codex. Stick it to him.

-Dirge

 

[Red Orc]

I seem to remember that when Codex: SM came out, there was talk about making the Rhinos cheaper, but it was decided against because then they'd be too cheap compared to Chaos Rhinos; so he may have a point about the relative cost issue. On the other hand, you're not Games Workshop, so whining to you isn't solving his problem. When codices are redone, sometimes there are points re-jigs, sometimes not; but I don't think you should give him an advantage just because he's whiney (tho, if you do put it to the group and they agree, fair enough).

It's his choice to play an army from Codex: SM, and if he choses to do so it's no-one's fault but his; he could make his Imperial Fists into a legal list from another Codex and play them like that - I'd recommend Blood Angels personally, but he could use a DA or even Chaos list and I don't see why there'd be a problem. Can you see anyone in the group objecting if he says "this is my legal BA army, it just happens to be represented by models in yellow"?

As to 'four-troop cheese', I'd just ignore it if I were you. He obviously has no notion what he's talking about.

So my opinion is, he's just being a jerk, tell him not to be such a baby and lump it; or alternatively quit bitching and change his list.

Sorry if that's no help. It's just that, never having met the guy, he already sounds really irritating.

 

[foulacy]

he sounds like a little girl to me

 

[Sinizter]

Or just point out the fact that you can't have a plasma cannon in each squad.

 

[ultimatum]

You shouldn't have taken down any points. His costs more for a reason. I dont know why he made such a big deal out of a measy 5 points. If he really complained alot though i would have taken down the 5 points too, Just to shut him up.

 

[Bishop120]

I would have to say that C:CSM has a list/codex advantage over C:SM. Not a significant one but there is one. Now C:SM has its advantages as well but its advantages come in what you can take and not how cheaply it can be done. I would say that if 2 players were equal in skill a C:CSM army would probably win more often than not versus a SM army.

A Black Legion army does have a significant point advantage over any regular vanilla marine army. Your not fearless so you cant be forced to take wounds like a the ATSKNF Space Marines if you fail your leadership. You get to re-roll to pass your leadership if you got your Icon like a good BL troop should. You have higher leadership on average. You have BP/Bolter/CCW/Frag/Krak for the same price as our marines without it (at least 4pt advantage per model). If you are heavy on the rhinos thats another point advantage for a similar SM army. Now with all these "Point" advantages do I think you should let your friend pay Chaos prices for Rhinos?? Heck no!

If your friend thinks Chaos armies are better than SM then have him build his army using C:CSM. Thats what some friends of mine are talking about doing and I myself have thought about it. Never mix and match codexes. One codex may be more powerfull than another but thats no excuse for poor gamemanship. If both people play using the rules of said "power" codex then it comes back to who really is the better gamer (or at least who had the luck of the dice). Besides using that rationalization your Chaos army should be able to buy Assualt Cannons for your Termies or Landspeeders and Attack Bikes. Thats stuff that he gets and you dont. Every Codex will have its strengths and weaknessess.. its all a matter of finding it and outplaying your opponent.

In theory tho if you didnt use any of the special marks, daemons, possessed, defilers, and just stuck with Icons of Chaos Glory; you could make a nice Marine army that looks Imperial but is a Chaos legal list.

 

[Frodo]

I cant help but agree with all of the other comments. sometimes one army will have an advantage over another, so? if he knows that youre going to play 4 squads in slightly cheaper rhinos he should really think how to combat that not waste time complaining

 

[obsidian492]

I have to go with the Fighting Tigers dude (Kenton Kilgore) when he said "There is no such thing as cheese." Link

 

[Firewolf]

>> First off, dont let him change point costs. He plays marines, so he's stuck wi the pts in the codex, not your problem. Second, there is nowt wrong wi fielding 4 troop choices, i did it wi my last edition C:CSM. 40k is about troops, so you aint no cheeser. Its your army, you spend the cash building it, so use whatever you want, and dont listen to the cheese callers. More power tae the troops.:victory:

 

[Red Orc]

If your friend thinks Chaos armies are better than SM then have him build his army using C:CSM. Thats what some friends of mine are talking about doing and I myself have thought about it...
... you could make a nice Marine army that looks Imperial but is a Chaos legal list.

I'm doing exactly that, but in reverse. I don't have the new CSM codex, so my Chaos force is currently Codex BA legal. Death Guard World Eaters ("Death Eaters"? Maybe not...) are awesome, and rending approximates the old Khorne chain-axe rules...

So yeah, he has options. Perhaps the constructive way forward is to point them out to him. It's probably better than punching him, which would be my other suggestion.