Fantasy and 40k
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from what ive heard, back in the day, warhammer was the first on the scene, i think 83 it as (not sure on the dates, so forgive me if im off). when rogue trader came out in the late 80s, the history was a shared one.
the history given, in a brief and very rare article, stated that the warhammer world was set in the 40K universe, but was surrounded in impenetrable warp storms. the same OLD ONES who were at war with the necrons at the beginning of time also shifted the continents, created the lizardfolk, and taught magic to the elves. they also battled the chaos gods and created a special gate at the north pole of the world to control the flow of chaos into the world.
But, i think it was either the second or third edition, GW decided to change the story, saying "although they share the same chaos gods, and some of the armies have the same names, it is 2 entirely different universes." A main, and valid reason from a business point of view, is that the devolpers of the games seperated the worlds for fear of people just buying into the 40k army, leaving the fantasy army to go away. "why buy into the fantasy, when its more exciting to fight futuristic battles." so they seperated it, made it 2 wholly contained universes/campaign settings meant to please the fantasy war gamer and the scifi war gamer.
hope this helps
the history given, in a brief and very rare article, stated that the warhammer world was set in the 40K universe, but was surrounded in impenetrable warp storms. the same OLD ONES who were at war with the necrons at the beginning of time also shifted the continents, created the lizardfolk, and taught magic to the elves. they also battled the chaos gods and created a special gate at the north pole of the world to control the flow of chaos into the world.
But, i think it was either the second or third edition, GW decided to change the story, saying "although they share the same chaos gods, and some of the armies have the same names, it is 2 entirely different universes." A main, and valid reason from a business point of view, is that the devolpers of the games seperated the worlds for fear of people just buying into the 40k army, leaving the fantasy army to go away. "why buy into the fantasy, when its more exciting to fight futuristic battles." so they seperated it, made it 2 wholly contained universes/campaign settings meant to please the fantasy war gamer and the scifi war gamer.
hope this helps
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55 Posts
When I was much younger and just getting into the hobby my cousin told me that the WHFB world was actually a planet inside the Eye of Terror and that Sigmar was one of the lost Primarchs, among other rubbish... This isn't true, though.
But sometimes it's nice to wonder...
But sometimes it's nice to wonder...
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I don't think its completly rubbish. I could see why some people would think so. In fact if they ever wanted to put both worlds together that would be the best way to do so.
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with the first and second editions of warhammer, sigmar was at the pinnacle of god/hero worship. sure, with the publishing of the sigmar series by black library, hes legendary status has gone from "super-awesome-mighty human wielding a great warhammer" to "just a lucky guy who was at the right place and right time", but, i think you can look at the stories and compare them to something like "decent of angels" or any other books about the primarchs and see some similarities. a man with no equal, able to unite the local human populace against a common enemy, chosen by the people to lead them, had a signature weapon.
myself, i tell my friends, and when my kids are old enough to hear the stories, i plan on telling them everything i know about the primarchs, and ill include sigmar in those ranks of awesomeness.
myself, i tell my friends, and when my kids are old enough to hear the stories, i plan on telling them everything i know about the primarchs, and ill include sigmar in those ranks of awesomeness.
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But might that not backfire when they eventually go online or talk to other gamers who hold to canon and they decide daddy was a bullshitter?
Overall Sigmar had no equal but each of his talents was bettered by one of his compatriots, there were men who were smarter, men who were stronger etc- like the Emperor in a way (i.e. Angron was more brutal and blood thirsty, the Lion was an unsurpassed tactician, Horus was a superb statesmen etc).
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oh im not going to be selective to them with what ill tell them. they will know the history of both of the games, and the history behind the development of the editions through the past 25 years.
true, some of sigmars friends may have had a quality better than his, the pure of heart, the great of faith, the strong arm wiht the big sword, but each one of them was content with the status quo. sigmar had the mindset to look forward past his own generation, and saw that things needed to be different, to ensure the survival of the human tribes. so he did what no other human did, and that was unite the tribes. So, i say having some brass balls the size of lustria is a pretty good trait. its what the lion had when he proposed his plan to rid the forests of the monster creatures.
so sure, in the 40k universe, he wouldve been someone the universe forgot about, but in fantasy, hes a fricken GOD! and dont all space marines hold their primarchs at a diety level just below the emperor?
true, some of sigmars friends may have had a quality better than his, the pure of heart, the great of faith, the strong arm wiht the big sword, but each one of them was content with the status quo. sigmar had the mindset to look forward past his own generation, and saw that things needed to be different, to ensure the survival of the human tribes. so he did what no other human did, and that was unite the tribes. So, i say having some brass balls the size of lustria is a pretty good trait. its what the lion had when he proposed his plan to rid the forests of the monster creatures.
so sure, in the 40k universe, he wouldve been someone the universe forgot about, but in fantasy, hes a fricken GOD! and dont all space marines hold their primarchs at a diety level just below the emperor?
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Oh right, I see where you're going with this- you threw me with the comparison to Primarchs at first.
You're saying that Sigmar had such a polarising and wide reaching effect on his world that it was/is akin to what happened to each of the worlds the Primarchs landed on.
Okay I actually fully agree with you if that was the point you're making.
You're saying that Sigmar had such a polarising and wide reaching effect on his world that it was/is akin to what happened to each of the worlds the Primarchs landed on.
Okay I actually fully agree with you if that was the point you're making.
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nailed it on the head, baron.
sigmar is like the primarchs in how much of an effect he had on the world.
sigmar is like the primarchs in how much of an effect he had on the world.
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I'd have to say "Not Really", he didn't unite the entire world under his leadership. He didn't even unite all the human tribes, Bretonia & Kisliv may have allied with his Empire but they don't worship him. Plus all the humans in Cathay didn't even know about him.
I'm just saying that most all of the Primarchs rose to a postion of dominence over their entire home world, Sigmar just united one smallish nation of his.
I'd think if he was a "True" Primarch he'd have united all the humans on the planet and set about destroying all the other races or at least beating the back so they would no longer be a threat to humans. Just look at what the Lion did on Caliban. I just don't see the dominence and power of a Primarch in Sigmar.
I haven't read any of the early history Fantasy books yet, so I don't know how he's protrayed in them.
Just my opinions, it is an interest theory and may have been something GW considered to be fluff in the early days but I think they've mostly ret-coned it and gotten away from it.
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Angron, Perturabo, Mortarion, Ferrus Manus, Alpharius, and Rogal Dorn didn't unite or rule their worlds either.
Kislev and Bretonnia didn't exist when Sigmar was a mortal man, and since Cathay did relatively regular trading with the kingdoms of Khemri it wouldn't be beyond plausibility that the Dragon Emperor heard of the Emperor Sigmar through those contacts.
It was Sigmar who forged a true alliance with the Dwarves, it was Sigmar who destroyed Nagash and one of the first human Daemon Princes. He allied the myriad tribes and forged them into a, relatively, stable Empire (which is more than the Khan did and he conquered the entire of his world).
Edit: Plus we weren't saying Sigmar was a Primarch but that he had a similar effect on his world.
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He still isn't on the level of a primarch for me. He isn't on par power wise and his actions are nothig more than that of a great HUMAN leader. By this def we could say Logan Grimnar or Dante were primarchs. I don't consider him to be on par with any of the primarchs.
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How bout looking at it this way then.... the primarchs were genetically engineered to be super badass.
Sigmar, born human under the twin-tailled commet, united "most of" the human tribes, single-handedly took out the super badass nagash, made friends with dwarves, literally mowed orcs down like a farmer schything wheat fields at harvest time, and took down a shaggoth after being hit by a lightning bolt.
the primarchs had it easy. genetic super strength, genetic super brain powers, genetic looks, genetic everything.
sigmar... Just like you or me....with a really big hammer!:biggrin:
Sigmar, born human under the twin-tailled commet, united "most of" the human tribes, single-handedly took out the super badass nagash, made friends with dwarves, literally mowed orcs down like a farmer schything wheat fields at harvest time, and took down a shaggoth after being hit by a lightning bolt.
the primarchs had it easy. genetic super strength, genetic super brain powers, genetic looks, genetic everything.
sigmar... Just like you or me....with a really big hammer!:biggrin:
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You could link it together by this crazy theory.
The warp, the immaterium, could have access to more than one Galaxy
Crappy Diagram
XXOXX
OXXXO
XXOXX
O being a galaxy and XXX representing what we know as the Warp, the place inbetween galaxies, for say a spirit world, Holding the universe together.
Now if the warp was known to be ruled by 4 Chaos Gods, it wouldn't matter which galaxy, because it's the same warp.
Thus explaining how the 2 separate universes could link the same idea of Tz, Khorne, Nurgle and FagGod together.
As for why im certain they're 2 separate worlds;
The necrons have been alive since the beginning of time, Waged wars with the Old Ones, and if it was the same universe, Necrons would be in Fantasy.
Do i make sense?
The warp, the immaterium, could have access to more than one Galaxy
Crappy Diagram
XXOXX
OXXXO
XXOXX
O being a galaxy and XXX representing what we know as the Warp, the place inbetween galaxies, for say a spirit world, Holding the universe together.
Now if the warp was known to be ruled by 4 Chaos Gods, it wouldn't matter which galaxy, because it's the same warp.
Thus explaining how the 2 separate universes could link the same idea of Tz, Khorne, Nurgle and FagGod together.
As for why im certain they're 2 separate worlds;
The necrons have been alive since the beginning of time, Waged wars with the Old Ones, and if it was the same universe, Necrons would be in Fantasy.
Do i make sense?
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Well you assume a lack of knowledge of the existance of the necrons mean an actual lack of existance. IOW, simply because you don't know it's there doesn't mean it isn't. I would have pointed to the eldar and the elves and possibly said that since the elves, who look just like the eldar, don't know of the existance of the eldar across the starts that thy should be different... Or the fact that the company said it wasn't, maybe.
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