[meinhardt]

I was just looking through the collected visions and noticed that the XI legion is listed as expunged.

expunged: to eliminate (as a memory) from one's consciousness

Just more proof that the XI Primarch is out there...

 

[Angel of Blood]

Well both the lost legions have been expunged/deleted/erased from all Imperial Records, we literally have no idea what could have happened to them. I'm inclined to believe they are dead, Dorns musing in Mechanicum just make it seem that way to me, don't know why. Theres no anger in his tone when he seems to wish the other two Primarchs were there, i dunno, we will never find out either way, but i just have it in my mind that they died in some tragedy

 

[13illfred]

There have been many threads on this topic before and while many people have their own fluff regarding the lost legions and primarchs, it is the general consensus that they exist to provide hobbyists with a foundation for their home brew fluff and sm chapters. Given this i think it is highly unlikely that gw will provide anymore information on them anytime soon.

 

[Tzeen Qhayshek]

Not true - as I last heard a book is being written about those two legions in question.

 

[normtheunsavoury]

Dan Abnett has said it's a subject he'd like to tackle in the future, personally I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

 

[Chompy Bits]

Not true - as I last heard a book is being written about those two legions in question.

Wow, really? Because the only time I ever heard of a potential missing primarch story was some comments by Dan Abnett which stated that there might be a book written about one of them but that it wasn't confirmed.

It would be cool if one of the missing primarchs was also a psyker like magnus, but one who became corrupted by his power. It would explain why the imperium was so afraid of psykers.

 

[darkreever]

Got a source for that one Tzeen Qhayshek? Its an interesting claim, but if there is no way to back it up than a baseless claim is all it shall be until proven otherwise. And considering GW's stance on leaving them a mystery so that players can *remain free* to design their own legions, such a book would be counter to that.

*That may have been the original intention, but now its one of the big fluff no-no's for most people.

 

[Chimaera]

Well I would be the first to admit I am no fluff expert but I would say the Blood Ravens have to have some connection to one of the expunged legions. Everything would seem to point to this connection. Maybe the Emperor found their Primarch and didn't like what he found or maybe the Primarch was killed before he could get to him or maybe he just refused to serve for some reason. No matter what the reason/history my money is on the Blood Ravens as being one of the legions. I would also gamble their Primarch was tainted by Chaos and died by the Emperors hand.

 

[Angel of Blood]

On the contrary, eveything seems to be pointing to the Blood Ravens being linked to the 1k Sons somehow. Not sure how much stock i put into it, but the connections are there if you want to see them

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

It would be cool if one of the missing primarchs was also a psyker like magnus, but one who became corrupted by his power.

You mean exactly like Magnus then?

 

[Chimaera]

On the contrary, eveything seems to be pointing to the Blood Ravens being linked to the 1k Sons somehow. Not sure how much stock i put into it, but the connections are there if you want to see them

I am assuming the Blood Ravens have been around for quite some time and I think they would know by now if they were connected to the Thousand Sons. The only thing that could seem to link them is their high proportion of psykers. This alone I do not believe is a convincing enough link to the TS on it's own. You will have to give some more reasons, which I will happily take into consideration.

 

[shaantitus]

On the subject of dorn and malcador on the lost legions. Doesn't malcador say to dorn not to consider it or think it as those legions are lost to the imperium? Lost would seem to indicate the possibility that they were not destroyed, rather absent and unreachable maybe? Or even beyond redemption.

 

[Brother Subtle]

I am assuming the Blood Ravens have been around for quite some time and I think they would know by now if they were connected to the Thousand Sons. The only thing that could seem to link them is their high proportion of psykers. This alone I do not believe is a convincing enough link to the TS on it's own. You will have to give some more reasons, which I will happily take into consideration.

There is a subtle link between the 1K sons and Blood Ravens. Cant remember if it was in the DOW books or a subtle note in A Thousand Sons but the link has been established however minor.

On the subject of dorn and malcador on the lost legions. Doesn't malcador say to dorn not to consider it or think it as those legions are lost to the imperium? Lost would seem to indicate the possibility that they were not destroyed, rather absent and unreachable maybe? Or even beyond redemption.

Yep, in The Lightening Tower. Im sure he mentioned something about 'mistakes of the past not to be repeated'??? But yeah. deff mentioned they are now lost to the Imperium. Lost how? who knows.

 

[mal310]

When did Dan say this? I think it would be great if they at least explained one of the lost legions, as long as the story was first class. With Dan at the helm (if it ever happened) I’m sure he would deliver the goods. If one legion was revealed and one kept a mystery it may keep both sides of the argument happy.

As for them being reserved for fan stories. Well most of the suggestions I read are complete crap. Stuff like, “they died in the capsule” (well that’s a bloody good story that one, lots of tension) or how about “one is Sigmar” (give me a break) then there is “they are the Grey Knights” (yawn) or "they died before they were found and their Legions were dissolved" (snore). The point I’m trying to make is that I would rather a professional like Dan write something fantastic than have to read those garbage theories regurgitated every couple of months.

I know some want to keep two never answered mysteries but I just find that uninteresting. In doing a story about one lost legion, those that want the mystery keep one and those who want a story told, get one.

 

[Chompy Bits]

You mean exactly like Magnus then?

Magnus wasn't really corrupted by his powers. He wanted to remain loyal up until the end, even going so far as making it easier for the Space Wolves to attack Prospero. It was his ignorance in thinking he could outsmart Tzeentch (and also the Emperor's really crappy and inconsistent teaching about what was aloud and what wasn't) that led to his downfall .

Also, considering the visions the one remembrancer had in A Thousand Sons I'd say that the connection between the TS and BR is more than minor. In the fluff it also seems that the average Blood Raven librarian is more powerful and more versatile than those of other chapters. I mean, try and compare them to some of the crappy librarians in the Soul Drinkers. Also, in the DOW2 novel it states that Blood Ravens lexicaniums can accomplish feats that librarians only of epistolary rank or higher in other chapters can (such as projecting their mind through the warp similar to an astropath). If they really have TS geneseed it would go a long way in explaining this.

 

[Angel of Blood]

I am assuming the Blood Ravens have been around for quite some time and I think they would know by now if they were connected to the Thousand Sons. The only thing that could seem to link them is their high proportion of psykers. This alone I do not believe is a convincing enough link to the TS on it's own. You will have to give some more reasons, which I will happily take into consideration.

The Blood Ravens have no knowledge of their past, they don't know how long they have been around or anything really. And they would have to have been around just as long if not longer to be connected to the missing Legions

The most popular connections people see are the high amount of pyskers, powerful ones at that, thirst for knowledge, and theres some other random refrences in the games. The more dubious ones to me that people like are the "knowledge is power" quote they often say, which the TS also said often, but then this is an immensley popular saying, the Inquisition quote it as to other organisations. And then in the book Thousand Sons the one remembrancer has that vision and talks about Ravens of Blood and crying out for knowledge. People can see this one of two ways, the first is it's a reference to the future of the blood ravens. The other which is what i read it as and still believe is simply refering to the TS impending doom, the Raven is associated with the Corvidae who are soon to be very bloody and crying out for knowledge is the TS anyway and all their confusion about whats happening at the time with their Primarch.

Like i said i don't take much stock in it, but the connections are definetly their for those who want to believe it.


As a side note, 'lost' can still mean destroyed.

 

[CaptainLoken]

GW never work that simple though even if they do revel one or two of the missing legions I'm sure by the end of the book (books) which ever route they decide they will still have them as *expunged from Imperial records* by the end so it give people insight to them and still allow people to go down the route of making there own fluff about them., and a little side note for GW making a slight profit from it..... And when I say slight I mean massive.

 

[MuSigma]

Legions and Librarians

In the fluff it also seems that the average Blood Raven librarian is more powerful and more versatile than those of other chapters. I mean, try and compare them to some of the crappy librarians in the Soul Drinkers. QUOTE]

I take great exception to this comment - Sarpedon is one of the most potent Librarians in the galaxy as are all the chalice bearing Librarians of the Soul Drinkers.

/rant off all happy smiley face again

As for the missing legions, my theory is based on the difference in punishment phrases between Expungement and Excomunication. Before the Emperor was a god and religion ruled the Empire, Expungement was a military offence. When the Emperor was fully alive there was no inquisition so they were not accused of Heresy. So perhaps they were accused of some military style crime.

The style of the Imperium is very similar to post and pre christian romans. The parallel of the Roman Empire would suggest that Legions (a very roman concept) would be expunged or decimated for crimes in battle such as cowardice, downright failure or loosing the Imperial standard ie the Legions Eagles.

Also for fighting on the loosing side in a very often fought civil war, such as fighting on the side of Mark Antony against Ceasar or Pompey against Ceasar. So not necessarily fighting against the Imperium on the side of chaos but fighting against the Emperor early on in its history because of some political arguement, say like when ceasar disbanded the senate and became emperor in the first place, also similar to Palpatine becoming Emperor in the star wars world fighting against the so called rebel alliance. So maybe the legions fought against the Emperor in some way making a stand against perhaps his brutal use of force to conquer peaceful worlds.

 

[Chompy Bits]

I take great exception to this comment - Sarpedon is one of the most potent Librarians in the galaxy as are all the chalice bearing Librarians of the Soul Drinkers.

Sorry to veer of topic but I just wanted to respond to this.
Sarpedon has a lot of raw power and the hell is a cool ability but thats really all he can do, where as someone like Isador Akios in the Dawn of War novel displayed telepathy(both sending and receiving), minor telekinesis, electricity projection (the only power Tyrendian ever really diplays), warp fire projection, energy barriers and heightened awareness plus in the game he also had Smite, Weaken Resolve and Word of the Emperor.

 

[Tzeen Qhayshek]

Got a source for that one Tzeen Qhayshek? Its an interesting claim, but if there is no way to back it up than a baseless claim is all it shall be until proven otherwise. And considering GW's stance on leaving them a mystery so that players can *remain free* to design their own legions, such a book would be counter to that.

*That may have been the original intention, but now its one of the big fluff no-no's for most people.

I have nothing over than what Dan Abett said. I actually thought that was a ongoing project and not just conjecture.