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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok this came up in a game the other day
A = Vehicle, B = a unit, C = HtH combat going on

A
B

C

Ok, so the vehicle (a) was assualted by unit B. The vehicle blows up (pen 6) and the blast radius is large enough to hit the nearby HtH.
In the rule book it states that the explosion is considered to be a shooting attack. Does this mean that the unit B provides cover for the HtH combatants? Simply put the origin of the explosion has to pass though elements of a unit to reach the combat satisfying the conditions for granting a cover save.

Second. The explosion from the vehicle took place at the same I step as the HtH combat (I3). If any casualties happen becuase of the explosion are they considered dead when dealing with the HtH combat, or since this is all "happening at the same time" do those who die in the explosion still get their attacks in?
If there was enough casualties from the blast to cause a morale test (it is considered a shooting attack) is combat still performed or does morale take over and (potentially) both sides make checks and leave the possibility that one (or both) sides run away before even trading blows?
 

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It's not a shooting attack, it's just a hit on all people within d6", and there is no rule saying it cannot affect/hit people in combat. The rules on not targeting people in combat are for normal shooting, and placing of templates/pre-scatter blast markers. Essentially you should treat it like a scattering blast, in that it can affect anyone, even if they are in combat.

Hope that helps :)
 

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As for the second part of your question, if the assault on the vehicle was resolved first, then any casualties on the guys in H2H would be removed before moving on to that assault.

In other words, you resolve one combat befor moving on to the next. Even if, in this case, the results from the first Close combat effect the second. Initiative order does not come in to play if it is two seperat close combats.


As for morale, if they are locked in H2H combat then the rules for morale checks in H2H combat trump any others (ie. they could suffer 25% casualties but still win the combat and not have to take a morale check).

The cover save thing has never come up with me, but my assumption would be that a cover save is allowed.

hope this helps.
 

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if the possibility of a cover save exist due to terrain or models, I would assume a cover save. odd situation though.
 

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As for the second part of your question, if the assault on the vehicle was resolved first, then any casualties on the guys in H2H would be removed before moving on to that assault
I would disagree with this as a vehicle does not, walker being special but included, hit on a 6 of the vehicle damage table would hit all units at the same time. not necessarily the unit in b2b first. this would be a case of hitting all at the same time. regardless of number of units.
\
maybe mutiple units locked in close combat would be the closest appox.
 

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if the possibility of a cover save exist due to terrain or models, I would assume a cover save. odd situation though.
This is how I think most people would play it out as the blast doesn't state you can't take cover saves against it. +rep
 

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I would disagree with this as a vehicle does not, walker being special but included, hit on a 6 of the vehicle damage table would hit all units at the same time. not necessarily the unit in b2b first. this would be a case of hitting all at the same time. regardless of number of units.

maybe mutiple units locked in close combat would be the closest appox.
No, cc is resolved in the player selected order. Whoever`s turn it is decides which combat to play out first. If the vehicle involving combat occurs first, any casualties inflicted by the explosion in a nearby but seperate cc will be dead before they strike. Initiative does not come into it in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
No, cc is resolved in the player selected order. Whoever`s turn it is decides which combat to play out first. If the vehicle involving combat occurs first, any casualties inflicted by the explosion in a nearby but seperate cc will be dead before they strike. Initiative does not come into it in this case.
This is essentially what things boiled down to. Many of us have been playing since early 2nd. Many times "logic" from earlier editions tend to creep in unexpectidly. The gaming group was split about 50/50 one side saying "well it all happens on I3" the other side saying that the order of resolution trumps the I steps.

The vehicle explosion was the first time this particular situation had happened and left us all fairly dumbfounded. we simply rolled off to keep the game going (one side was Kroot, no armor, the other combatants were Ork boys, 6+) so any resolution was benefitial for both parties.

As for the "treat as shooting" on page 67 it states that the hits are treated "just like hits from shooting". Yes we know that this is effects on passengers, however the wording of the result on pg 61 (flaming debris scattered in a d6 range) heavily suggested that is would also be considered a "ranged" attack". Then again that could just be "logic" rearing its ugly head
 

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No, they do not get a cover save for LOS related reasons.
The 'unit in the way' thing is a LOS thing, they obscure LOS, so a cover save is granted; there is no LOS with this explosion, it defies physics that way, this explosion is so awesome it can pass through solid walls for some reason.


Second question:
Yes, if this happens in a single combat, then it happens during that Initiative step.
People slower than the current step will die before they can attack.
However, if the victims are from a DIFFERENT combat, then it depends upon the order you resolved the combats; the person whose turn it is chooses the order in which to resolve combats, all vehicle explosions happen in that order.
If a vehicle explodes from a combat next to another combat, and the vehicle combat happened first, the casualties from the second combat cannot attack (even if they have higher I than the step the explosion happened), since their combat hasn't happened yet.


Third question:
Morale tests due to casualties happen at the END of the phase, so no.
It's not considered a shooting attack, and you can have Morale tests forced on you from any kind of wound, including Dangerous Terrain, or your own weapons overheating.
 
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